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Friday, October 9, 2009

Re: [chottala.com] Proud of Dr. Yunus - can we STOP biting please?



What world body?
Nobel prizes are most prestigious award in today's world.
But, the awardees are not chosen by a world body.
 
The Norwegian Parliament appoints the Norwegian Nobel Committee,
which selects the Laureate for the Peace Prize.
 
The other Nobel Prizes are awarded by Swedish bodies (Swedish Academy, Royal
Swedish Academy of Sciences, Karolinska Institute). The Karolinska Institute is one
of Europe's largest medical universities. A committee of the institute appoints the
laureates for the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine,
The Nobel Prize in Economics is actually "The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in
Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel.
 
Fair review, criticism & contradictory opinions should be well accepted and
should not be considered as "biting".
All great men and great ideas have to withstand the test of  time.
 
Syed Aslam

 
On 10/6/09, Em Pannah <epannah@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello All,
 
The world body recognized Dr. Muhammad Yunus - we are proud of him and our Bangladesh. Can we STOP biting please?
 
Best regards,
Em Pannah
Faculty, University of Maryland (UMUC)

 

 
 
 
 

--- On Sun, 10/4/09, Dr. Jamir Chowdhury <americamyland@gmail.com> wrote:
 

From: Dr. Jamir Chowdhury <americamyland@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chottala.com] 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty - Boston Globe Article
To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:03 AM

 
Please compare the povert rates of the areas where Micro-credit was provided VS the areas that recieived support from NRBs.You will find that people from the areas supported by NRBs are in much better conditions. Yes, Micro-credit helps but not to transform the lowest income poor to the mid-income level. thanks.
 


 
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Siraj Zaman <sirajuz@hotmail. com> wrote:
 
"Billions of dollars and a Nobel Prize later, it looks like 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty" is the most uninformed, ignorant, and untrue statement that someone out of touch of the real ground where it is happening, can only make. I do cordially invite the commentator and the writer of the below too long too absurd essay full of lies and distortion to go in the interior villages of bangladesh like chitpur of Sherpur district or raokhali of rangamati district or mashkanda of Netrokona district or in any of the 64000 interior villages of Bangladesh and collect data about the social life style upliftment of the people of the lowest rung of the society. Compare it with what was 2o years ago and what was 100 years ago to their fore-fathers. It will be quite obvious and quite clear how much improvement the micro-credits did for their lives. Microcredit provided each family a living home, cell phone, cows, goats, plots of very high yielding crops, vegetables or fruits, clothes on them, created millions of independent small jobs where the poors can work and earn and live decent lives what they could not ever afford before other than working as day-laborers with very low or no wage for their entire life. Only because of the small credit, even the poorest of  the poors, can send their children to the schools, especially their daughters, and can buy a bike for each one of them to go to the distant schools form home.  Could anybody imagine before that 100% of the children will go to school in Bangladesh, even it is a poverty stricken country? It happened because of the micro-credit only.  Before when population was half of what is now, used to die significantly by the famines and mongas. Now-e-days no one dies for any famines. Mongas happen but very very less and micro-credit is working fantastically to tackle those crises. The poorest class people before could never thought of making their children educated, but now with the help of microcredits the poorest people  are finding very high yielding self employments such as growing, selling, trading, transporting, communicating, educating, food and other stuff processing, catering, sewing, crafting, painting, and many many activities like these, that provide ample earning as for their needs,  and so no need the children to help them to run the family; and so the children can go to schools and be educated; and change the status of their families when they become educated with higher degrees.
 
Please go to the interior villages of Bangladesh, and verify the truths; before publishing ridiculous essays for seriously affecting and dis-servicing the low-income people that would be quite agaist humanity.  
 

To: khabor@yahoogroups. com; notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; amra-bangladesi@ yahoogroups. com; reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com; chottala@yahoogroup s.com; SonarBangladesh@ yahoogroups. com
From: Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:16:18 -0400
Subject: [chottala.com] 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty - Boston Globe Article

 

Small change

Billions of dollars and a Nobel Prize later, it looks like 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty

By Drake Bennett
Globe Staff / September 20, 2009
In the world of international aid, microcredit is a rock star. The practice of giving very poor people very small loans to start very small businesses has been hailed as one of the very few unambiguous success stories in the long, frustrating fight against Third World poverty. The pioneer of the practice, Bangladesh's Grameen Bank, has disbursed more than $8 billion in unsecured loans, usually in amounts under $100, to people traditional banks ignore. Along with a 98 percent repayment rate, Grameen has accrued an inspiring collection of stories about its overwhelmingly female borrowers, whose microloans allowed them to start up an embroidery or pottery business, or a snack cart or a stand selling cell phone cards, and through such petty entrepreneurship lift themselves out of poverty. "Small Loans, Big Gains," a 2002 Globe editorial on microcredit was titled.
 
Discuss
COMMENTS (7)
Microlending institutions have sprung up all over the developing world, from India to Bolivia to Serbia; by one estimate, over 150 million people worldwide have taken out a microloan. Government aid groups and NGOs have rushed to fund them, and so have Wall Street banks and hedge funds, enticed by the promise of an anti-poverty program that can do so much while paying for itself - and even turning a nice profit. Grameen Bank and its founder, Mohammad Yunus, were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006, and Yunus is fond of saying that, thanks to microcredit, his grandchildren will have to go to museums to know what poverty looks like.
 
But two new research papers suggest that microcredit is not nearly the powerful tool it has been made out to be. The papers, by leading development economists affiliated with MIT's Jameel Poverty Action Lab, have not yet been published, but they are already being called the most thorough, careful studies yet done on the topic. What they find is that, by most measures, microcredit does not offer a way out of poverty. It helps a few of the more entrepreneurial poor to start up businesses, and at the margins it may boost the profits of existing microenterprises, but that doesn't translate into gains for the borrowers, as measured by indicators like income, spending, health, or education. In fact, most microcredit clients actually spend their borrowed money not on a business, but on household expenses, on paying off other debts or on a relatively big-ticket item like a TV or a daughter's wedding. And while microcredit champions point to microloans as a tool for empowering women, the studies see no impact on gender roles, and find evidence that if any one group benefits more, it's male entrepreneurs with existing businesses.
 
"Microcredit is not a transformational panacea that is going to lift people out of poverty," says Dean Karlan, an economics professor at Yale and a co-author of one of the studies. "There might be little pockets here and there of people who are made better off, but the average effect is weak, if not nonexistent."
 
In other words, Karlan and others argue, there's a place for microcredit in the campaign to help the world's poor, it's just not a very big one. And in the global anti-poverty fight - where aid budgets and public attention are both limited, and the potential stakes measured in the trajectories of millions of lives - it's vitally important to know what actually works, and what is simply hype. That's all the more true with microcredit, where the interest rates are usually far higher than what we're accustomed to in the developed world, and where there's always the risk that poor borrowers, just like wealthier ones, may end up piling up debts they can't repay.
 
Microcredit's defenders say the new findings, while suggestive, aren't enough to prove anything. Some argue that they actually show that microcredit works, in a qualified way, providing a cheaper alternative to the village moneylender and his ruinous interest rates. Microcredit's more dramatic effects, they suggest, may take longer to appear than the 1½-to-2-year windows the researchers looked at.
 
Underlying all of this is a debate over the role and the importance of the micro-entrepreneur. Part of the appeal of microcredit lies in its suggestion that the world's slums are populated not by helpless victims of global forces, but eager entrepreneurs lacking only a $30 loan to start a business and pull themselves out of poverty. The new research underlines the fact that, inspiring as that story may be, it misrepresents how both individuals and nations climb the economic ladder. Developing nations already have far more petty entrepreneurs than wealthy countries do, mostly because people there have little choice but to start their own business if they want to make any money. What these countries don't have enough of are the kinds of steady jobs that more reliably raise incomes, and the sort of enterprises, often quite large, that provide them. Truly addressing the poverty of the developing world may require that we think macro rather than micro.
 
In 1976, Muhammad Yunus was an American-trained economics professor at Bangladesh's University of Chittagong. A brutal famine two years earlier had made him vividly aware of the precarious lives of the very poor, and he had begun to spend much of his time in Jobra, a village that abutted the university. It was there, he recounts in his autobiography, that he met a woman named Sufiya Begum, a young mother of three who made bamboo stools by hand. Begum was too poor to afford the 5 takas (about 22 cents) per stool that her bamboo cost, so she had to borrow the money from merchants. As part of the deal, she then had to sell the merchants her stools, and they set their prices so that she only cleared two cents a stool.
 
All she needed to break out of that pernicious cycle, Yunus realized, was 22 cents. Then she could buy her own bamboo and sell her stools on the retail market, using what she earned to buy more bamboo and pocketing the profits. So Yunus decided to lend it to her himself. Working with a student, he drew up a list of 42 Jobra villagers in situations like Begum's and lent them, out of his own pocket, the money it took to pay off their debts. All in all it came to $27.
 
It was out of this first experiment that Grameen Bank was born; last month the bank disbursed just under $97 million worth of loans to borrowers all over Bangladesh. Yet, despite the explosive growth, there's been little rigorous research on the efficacy of microcredit.
 
This is not necessarily unusual for development and antipoverty interventions. Such research can be very difficult to do. When the target is something as complex as poverty, even at the level of a small village cause and effect can be maddeningly elusive.
 
And once an aid organization or philanthropically minded corporation, won over by powerful success stories, commits to an antipoverty tool, whether it's microcredit or bed nets or building rural schools, they tend to lose interest in funding research that could suggest that it doesn't work.
 
Ironically, the very speed with which microcredit has spread has made it hard to do the sort of comparisons that would most clearly measure its impact: in Bangladesh today it's impossible to find a community where people don't already have access to microcredit.
 
The new microcredit studies set out to address these challenges. At least one author of each of the papers is affiliated with MIT's Poverty Action Lab, a research center that brings together economists with a determinedly experimental bent. In particular, its researchers all share a belief in randomized controlled trials - the same sort of test that new drugs have to undergo - as a tool for evaluating poverty alleviation measures.
 
Karlan and his co-author, Jonathan Zinman, an associate economics professor at Dartmouth, looked at a bank in the Philippines that offered microloans. They created their controlled experiment by altering the algorithm the bank used to evaluate creditworthiness so that some borderline applicants were randomly denied loans while other otherwise identical applicants had loans approved. The researchers then followed up with the borrowers and nonborrowers to see what difference the loan had made.
 
The answer was not much. Neither household income nor spending rose for those who got microloans. And borrowers who did put the money into their businesses - instead of using it, as many did, for household expenses - actually shrank rather than grew their businesses. Karlan and Zinman suggest that this might be because the business owners were taking advantage of the loan to fire unproductive workers to whom they owed financial favors, and those firings seemed to explain the very small gains in profit Karlan and Zinman found. In addition, the gains accrued only to male entrepreneurs, not the women usually targeted by microcredit programs.
 
The second study, co-authored by Abhijit Banerjee and Esther Duflo, economics professors at MIT, along with Rachel Glennerster, executive director of the Poverty Action Lab, and an MIT economics doctoral student named Cynthia Kinnan, found a slightly larger impact, though a selective one. Working with a microcredit bank in India that was looking to expand in the city of Hyderabad, the researchers did find some small positive effects. Borrowers who already had a business did see some increase in profit. Households without businesses that the researchers judged more predisposed to start one were found to cut back on spending, suggesting they were saving to augment their loan for a capital business expense like a pushcart or a sewing machine. The researchers also found small but encouraging shifts in household spending across the board, with less money spent on "temptation goods" like alcohol, tobacco, and gambling.
 
Still, overall household spending - a key indicator of financial well-being - stayed about the same. And the researchers found no effect on children's health or education levels, and the women in the borrower homes were no more likely to play a role in household decisions than those in the control group.
 
To Duflo, this only seems disappointing because expectations for microcredit are so high.
 
"I don't see this as a negative finding," she says. When asked why she thinks microcredit didn't boost health and education outcomes, she says, "I would really ask the question, 'Why did we expect all these things to happen?' If you give people access to a financial instrument, it's like any other instrument. It's useful, but it's not like the miracle drug to end poverty."
 
For microcredit's defenders, evidence like this is, at best, an incomplete portrait. In part that's because of the relatively short time horizon of the studies.
 
"Certainly if people expected to see increasing incomes right away, in 12 months, that might be too much to expect," says Nachiket Mor, an economist and president of India's ICICI Foundation for Inclusive Growth.
 
Other microcredit proponents argue that the fact that microcredit has proliferated as fast as it has, with new clients signing on in droves and old ones coming back repeatedly, means it must be providing a reliable benefit to borrowers, if only by allowing them to pay off higher-interest moneylender loans.
 
"The fact that [microcredit] has survived commercially, I take that more seriously than any other piece of evidence," says Tyler Cowen, an economics professor at George Mason University who has studied the topic.
 
Even among some of microcredit's more passionate proponents, however, there has been a ratcheting down of the rhetoric in recent years. What microcredit may do, they argue, is not transform lives, but simply ameliorate them, giving poor people a more affordable source for credit, and one that, unlike some moneylenders, will not resort to physical violence if someone can't repay.
 
"The picture that emerges is not of people climbing out of poverty through microenterprise, but people doing what they need to to get by," says David Roodman, a microcredit expert at the Center for Global Development.
 
Nonetheless, the microcredit narrative of entrepreneurship and self-advancement is a stirring one, and still tends to dominate the image microcredit institutions present to the world.
 
Karlan sees the romance of this ideology standing in the way of measures that might more directly aid poor households. In many situations, he argues, the most helpful thing for poor households may not be a loan - especially since microloan interest rates can run from 30 up to 100 percent - but making it easier for them to save, or allowing them to buy some form of formal insurance policy against financial shocks. Research has shown that even people making $2 a day can put some money aside, and in many poor neighborhoods people don't save as much as they might simply because there's no trustworthy place to put their savings.
 
And if there are interventions that can lift whole neighborhoods - and, ultimately, whole nations - out of poverty, they will probably have to be much broader in scope. Part of the appeal of microcredit is that it avoids the frustrations of anti-poverty campaigns that seek to catalyze economic growth at a large scale. But it's a basic tenet of economics that scale has its advantages. Forty workers at a textile plant are going to be much more productive than 40 microentrepreneur weavers each working by themselves.
 
Partly in response to these concerns, Grameen itself has begun to offer a line of loans of up to $10,000 for what might be called mini- rather than microenterprises. And in a more marked shift, a few NGOs have begun to focus on the previously neglected sector of medium-sized businesses in the developing world, looking not just at loans, but buying equity stakes in the companies to provide them with interest-free money. They're bigger investments, and in the end they may have far bigger returns.
 
Drake Bennett is the staff writer for Ideas. E-mail drbennett@globe. com .
 
© Copyright 2009 Globe Newspaper Company.
Also Read ENA report on this article (Bangla):
http://www.khabor. com/news/ prabash/10/ prabasher_ news_10012009_ 0000010.htm
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


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[chottala.com] Human RIGHTS BANGLADESH:: Glimmers of Hope Amid an Elusive Peace



RIGHTS-BANGLADESH: Glimmers of Hope Amid an Elusive Peace
Catherine Makino interviews leading Bangladeshi human rights activist SULTANA KAMAL

TOKYO, Sep 22 (IPS) - Sultana Kamal dreams of a country "where every single citizen will live in democracy, in equality" and where everyone has "equal share to resources and opportunities." Fulfilling this dream has been her lifelong advocacy as a human rights advocate.

The former adviser to the caretaker government of Bangladesh has served as a United Nations legal consultant for Vietnamese boat people in Hong Kong. As a legal practitioner, she is committed to providing legal services to the poor and underprivileged.

Kamal joined the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971, which pitted the West Pakistan (now Pakistan) against East Pakistan, resulting in the latter's secession as an independent state, now called Bangladesh. Among others, she helped collect information for the guerilla forces, Mukti Bahini (Liberation Army), and gave shelter to people displaced by the conflict.

Kamal completed her law degree at Dhaka University in 1978, and later a master's degree in Women and Development Studies in the Netherlands.

She has played a key role in bringing to international attention the long drawn-out conflict involving the indigenous people living in the Chittagong Hill Tracts in the south-eastern region of Bangladesh. Even after a peace accord was signed in 1997, violations of human rights in the region persisted and peace remains elusive.

Some critics warned that Bangladesh could become the next Sri Lanka, which only recently emerged from a decades-long civil war.

Kamal, who was in Japan in mid-September, shared with IPS her aspirations for her country and what she hoped a developed country like Japan could do.

IPS: What did you hope to achieve for your people by coming to Japan?

SULTANA KAMAL: (My) main objective was to share information regarding the implementation of the Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT) Accord, which was signed in 1997 between the government of Bangladesh and Shanti Bahin (the United People's Party of the CHT).

The Accord was to end the armed conflict, which has been going on since 1976 in the region, and to settle questions regarding the rights of the indigenous people of the Chittagong Hill Tracts. These included land rights, natural and environmental practices, rights to their culture and, most importantly, the constitutional recognition of their rights and identity.

I wanted to see greater awareness of the problems of indigenous people in the Chittagong Hill Tracts, their struggles and demands, which should lead to more support for them by the Japanese.

IPS: Why Japan in particular?

SK: Some Japanese groups are concerned with the rights of the disempowered and disadvantaged, especially indigenous people, who have been engaged in working towards the realization of (those) rights.

IPS: Is your government sincere in its support for the CHT?

SK: The present government of Bangladesh is committed to implementing the Accord, but it is facing challenges from the anti-Accord forces. There is a need to strengthen the people and government's support of the CHT.

This trip to Japan will help us reach the international community and get stronger opinions favorable to the Accord.

IPS: What do you expect from the new government of Japan?

SK: This government is liberal, so we can expect the benefits of a liberal and progressive outlook on (its) international policies. More importantly, we hear that the government will put more emphasis on strengthening relationships with its Asian neighbors, which means more support to the people of Asia who need it most.

IPS: What do you envision Japan will do now that it is under new leadership?

SK: New leadership means new hopes…. not (only) for its own people, but for the (rest of the) world, because Japan is among the league of world leaders.

This time the hope is even greater for Asia as the (Japanese) government is likely to be more forward-looking and has already committed itself to closer ties with (its) Asian neighbors.

IPS: Please tell us about your organization, the Law and Mediation Center or Ain O Salish Kendra (ASK)?

SK: (ASK) started in 1986 as a legal aid centre to provide free legal aid to the disempowered. Since most of the disempowered happen to be women, it had a special focus on them, especially poor women.

It provides legal aid to victims of state or social violence, arbitrary arrest, preventive detention, and community and class violence.

It started in a garage of a well-wisher of the organisation and has since grown into a 17-unit composite programme known as a human rights and legal aid center, or Ain o Salish Kendra.

ASK cooperates with many national, international and regional networks on human rights issues. With the UNECOSOC (United Nations Economic and Social Council) (consultative) status, ASK works closely with the U.N. special rapporteurs and on some government committees as civil society members to give advice. In short, ASK is considered to be one of the most active human rights groups (in the world).

IPS: What is the situation of women in your country?

SK: I am very proud to say that the women have made a lot of progress. But because of the existing patriarchal systems… in both private and public life, women have to face a lot of challenges in realising their rights.

The Constitution of Bangladesh commits to equality in public life for women. It goes further to say that special measures will be taken to bring the disadvantaged groups, including women, at par with everyone, and everyone will be equal before the law.

IPS: Is that happening in reality?

SK: Since in private life, laws based on religions govern people, women are discriminated against in marriage, divorce, guardianship and custody of children and in inheritance.

The discrimination is not only between women and men of the same religion; it is between women of different religions, too. For example, the Muslim women have limited rights to divorce and inheritance, which the women of other religions don't have.

The situation of minority women is even worse, particularly in a conflict situation where their interests and rights are considered secondary to the larger interests of the community which, as we all know, are defined by (traditional) patriarchy.

IPS: What is being done about it?

SK: The women's movement is very vibrant in Bangladesh. The present government also has promised to declare policies for women's development. We can hope for the best, but we know very well that there is no respite from hard work for us to gain what we aspire for.

IPS: What urgently needs to be done in your country?

SK: The most important duty we have now is supporting the democratic processes and be firm on not allowing any anti-democratic, anti-human rights, fundamentalist or corrupt measures, to foil it. Seeing that democracy gets a ground in this country is a job of the people as well as the government. Establishment of justice, rule of law, human rights and security and peace are the priorities now.

IPS: You have given so much energy and time for causes. How has this affected you personally, and have you had to sacrifice a lot?

SK: If I have been able to give my energy and time to causes in my life, I will consider that to be my good fortune. What better use could I put my energy and time to?

The main impact it has had on me personally is that it has taught me to understand and love my country better and to feel a part of the whole of humanity. I don't feel that I have sacrificed a lot. I think I have done nothing more than my duty. (END/2009)

Send your comments to the editor

 
 
 
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    RE: [chottala.com] Proud of Dr. Yunus - can we STOP biting please?



    It may not have improved the life of middle-class or high-income level people but it tremendously improved the life of the poor and poorest people of the country throughout all areas and all localities. Yes, as I always say, nothing is perfect in the world. But we have to live with the statistics and to support whatever improvements are achieved in the maximum levels, ignoring the minor drawbacks. Is there anything without any drawbacks in the world? None. Humans being so improved as a specie amongst all living beings, still carry filthy urines in their bladders and stinky droppings in their stomachs. Did that make humans so bad? Why not? Because humans have so much more good stuffs compared to having just urine and droppings. Likewise, please look at the more good stuff and not just little bad stuff of something. Many selfish rich people and a lot of selfish middle class people bitterly oppose micro-credits for one main reason, which is, the micro-credit provided the jobs of own to the poor and poorest people and created the scarcity of house-hold servants and day laborers all over Bangladesh. People have to pay more now to find the servants and the day laborers. Those rich and middle-class people consider it as going against the improvement of the society, because of the price hiking in the market of day-laborers and house-servants; and those rich and middle-class people are concerned about their losses in the absolute hoarding and profiteering in the labor market. This is the worst mentality and a lot of people are siding with them, perhaps you did too, and perhaps for that reason you only see the bad affect of the microcerdits, but not the immense improvements of the condition of lives of the poor and poorest people of the country. This must be a corrupt thought.  Uplifting the conditions of the poor and poorest people should be valued as more desirable and more precious above the losses of profits of the well-to-do people's spending in the labor market.
     
    By the away, why I have accept your ridiculous information that people of areas where there is no micro-credits are better off? Are you talking about the  poorest people there or about the well-to-do peoplethere? Before and even now, no one used to land money to the poorest people, except robbing their physical labors with very little or no money. Of course, some local local business people (mohajons) or village politicians (matobbars) would lend them money with 200% to 500% interest yearly, and at the end, when the loan could not be paid-off by those poor people, the influential lenders would grab all belongings of those poorest people. Micro-lending interest is about 30% maximum yearly, which is way cheaper than the local lenders. Are you in favor of those local cheaters? I believe you are not. So far all microcrediut small loans have been found to be within the means of the poorest people of all societies throughout the country. 
     

    --- On Sun, 10/4/09, Dr. Jamir Chowdhury <americamyland@gmail.com> wrote:

    From: Dr. Jamir Chowdhury <americamyland@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: [chottala.com] 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty - Boston Globe Article
    To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:03 AM

     
    Please compare the povert rates of the areas where Micro-credit was provided VS the areas that recieived support from NRBs.You will find that people from the areas supported by NRBs are in much better conditions. Yes, Micro-credit helps but not to transform the lowest income poor to the mid-income level. thanks.
     


     
    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Siraj Zaman <sirajuz@hotmail. com> wrote:
     
    "Billions of dollars and a Nobel Prize later, it looks like 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty" is the most uninformed, ignorant, and untrue statement that someone out of touch of the real ground where it is happening, can only make. I do cordially invite the commentator and the writer of the below too long too absurd essay full of lies and distortion to go in the interior villages of bangladesh like chitpur of Sherpur district or raokhali of rangamati district or mashkanda of Netrokona district or in any of the 64000 interior villages of Bangladesh and collect data about the social life style upliftment of the people of the lowest rung of the society. Compare it with what was 2o years ago and what was 100 years ago to their fore-fathers. It will be quite obvious and quite clear how much improvement the micro-credits did for their lives. Microcredit provided each family a living home, cell phone, cows, goats, plots of very high yielding crops, vegetables or fruits, clothes on them, created millions of independent small jobs where the poors can work and earn and live decent lives what they could not ever afford before other than working as day-laborers with very low or no wage for their entire life. Only because of the small credit, even the poorest of  the poors, can send their children to the schools, especially their daughters, and can buy a bike for each one of them to go to the distant schools form home.  Could anybody imagine before that 100% of the children will go to school in Bangladesh, even it is a poverty stricken country? It happened because of the micro-credit only.  Before when population was half of what is now, used to die significantly by the famines and mongas. Now-e-days no one dies for any famines. Mongas happen but very very less and micro-credit is working fantastically to tackle those crises. The poorest class people before could never thought of making their children educated, but now with the help of microcredits the poorest people  are finding very high yielding self employments such as growing, selling, trading, transporting, communicating, educating, food and other stuff processing, catering, sewing, crafting, painting, and many many activities like these, that provide ample earning as for their needs,  and so no need the children to help them to run the family; and so the children can go to schools and be educated; and change the status of their families when they become educated with higher degrees.
     
    Please go to the interior villages of Bangladesh, and verify the truths; before publishing ridiculous essays for seriously affecting and dis-servicing the low-income people that would be quite agaist humanity.  
     

    To: khabor@yahoogroups. com; notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; amra-bangladesi@ yahoogroups. com; reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com; chottala@yahoogroup s.com; SonarBangladesh@ yahoogroups. com
    From: Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com
    Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:16:18 -0400
    Subject: [chottala.com] 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty - Boston Globe Article

     

    Small change

    Billions of dollars and a Nobel Prize later, it looks like 'microlending' doesn't actually do much to fight poverty

    By Drake Bennett
    Globe Staff / September 20, 2009
    In the world of international aid, microcredit is a rock star. The practice of giving very poor people very small loans to start very small businesses has been hailed as one of the very few unambiguous success stories in the long, frustrating fight against Third World poverty. The pioneer of the practice, Bangladesh's Grameen Bank, has disbursed more than $8 billion in unsecured loans, usually in amounts under $100, to people traditional banks ignore. Along with a 98 percent repayment rate, Grameen has accrued an inspiring collection of stories about its overwhelmingly female borrowers, whose microloans allowed them to start up an embroidery or pottery business, or a snack cart or a stand selling cell phone cards, and through such petty entrepreneurship lift themselves out of poverty. "Small Loans, Big Gains," a 2002 Globe editorial on microcredit was titled.
    Discuss
    COMMENTS (7)
    Microlending institutions have sprung up all over the developing world, from India to Bolivia to Serbia; by one estimate, over 150 million people worldwide have taken out a microloan. Government aid groups and NGOs have rushed to fund them, and so have Wall Street banks and hedge funds, enticed by the promise of an anti-poverty program that can do so much while paying for itself - and even turning a nice profit. Grameen Bank and its founder, Mohammad Yunus, were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006, and Yunus is fond of saying that, thanks to microcredit, his grandchildren will have to go to museums to know what poverty looks like.
    But two new research papers suggest that microcredit is not nearly the powerful tool it has been made out to be. The papers, by leading development economists affiliated with MIT's Jameel Poverty Action Lab, have not yet been published, but they are already being called the most thorough, careful studies yet done on the topic. What they find is that, by most measures, microcredit does not offer a way out of poverty. It helps a few of the more entrepreneurial poor to start up businesses, and at the margins it may boost the profits of existing microenterprises, but that doesn't translate into gains for the borrowers, as measured by indicators like income, spending, health, or education. In fact, most microcredit clients actually spend their borrowed money not on a business, but on household expenses, on paying off other debts or on a relatively big-ticket item like a TV or a daughter's wedding. And while microcredit champions point to microloans as a tool for empowering women, the studies see no impact on gender roles, and find evidence that if any one group benefits more, it's male entrepreneurs with existing businesses.
    "Microcredit is not a transformational panacea that is going to lift people out of poverty," says Dean Karlan, an economics professor at Yale and a co-author of one of the studies. "There might be little pockets here and there of people who are made better off, but the average effect is weak, if not nonexistent."
    In other words, Karlan and others argue, there's a place for microcredit in the campaign to help the world's poor, it's just not a very big one. And in the global anti-poverty fight - where aid budgets and public attention are both limited, and the potential stakes measured in the trajectories of millions of lives - it's vitally important to know what actually works, and what is simply hype. That's all the more true with microcredit, where the interest rates are usually far higher than what we're accustomed to in the developed world, and where there's always the risk that poor borrowers, just like wealthier ones, may end up piling up debts they can't repay.
    Microcredit's defenders say the new findings, while suggestive, aren't enough to prove anything. Some argue that they actually show that microcredit works, in a qualified way, providing a cheaper alternative to the village moneylender and his ruinous interest rates. Microcredit's more dramatic effects, they suggest, may take longer to appear than the 1½-to-2-year windows the researchers looked at.
    Underlying all of this is a debate over the role and the importance of the micro-entrepreneur. Part of the appeal of microcredit lies in its suggestion that the world's slums are populated not by helpless victims of global forces, but eager entrepreneurs lacking only a $30 loan to start a business and pull themselves out of poverty. The new research underlines the fact that, inspiring as that story may be, it misrepresents how both individuals and nations climb the economic ladder. Developing nations already have far more petty entrepreneurs than wealthy countries do, mostly because people there have little choice but to start their own business if they want to make any money. What these countries don't have enough of are the kinds of steady jobs that more reliably raise incomes, and the sort of enterprises, often quite large, that provide them. Truly addressing the poverty of the developing world may require that we think macro rather than micro.
    In 1976, Muhammad Yunus was an American-trained economics professor at Bangladesh's University of Chittagong. A brutal famine two years earlier had made him vividly aware of the precarious lives of the very poor, and he had begun to spend much of his time in Jobra, a village that abutted the university. It was there, he recounts in his autobiography, that he met a woman named Sufiya Begum, a young mother of three who made bamboo stools by hand. Begum was too poor to afford the 5 takas (about 22 cents) per stool that her bamboo cost, so she had to borrow the money from merchants. As part of the deal, she then had to sell the merchants her stools, and they set their prices so that she only cleared two cents a stool.
    All she needed to break out of that pernicious cycle, Yunus realized, was 22 cents. Then she could buy her own bamboo and sell her stools on the retail market, using what she earned to buy more bamboo and pocketing the profits. So Yunus decided to lend it to her himself. Working with a student, he drew up a list of 42 Jobra villagers in situations like Begum's and lent them, out of his own pocket, the money it took to pay off their debts. All in all it came to $27.
    It was out of this first experiment that Grameen Bank was born; last month the bank disbursed just under $97 million worth of loans to borrowers all over Bangladesh. Yet, despite the explosive growth, there's been little rigorous research on the efficacy of microcredit.
    This is not necessarily unusual for development and antipoverty interventions. Such research can be very difficult to do. When the target is something as complex as poverty, even at the level of a small village cause and effect can be maddeningly elusive.
    And once an aid organization or philanthropically minded corporation, won over by powerful success stories, commits to an antipoverty tool, whether it's microcredit or bed nets or building rural schools, they tend to lose interest in funding research that could suggest that it doesn't work.
    Ironically, the very speed with which microcredit has spread has made it hard to do the sort of comparisons that would most clearly measure its impact: in Bangladesh today it's impossible to find a community where people don't already have access to microcredit.
    The new microcredit studies set out to address these challenges. At least one author of each of the papers is affiliated with MIT's Poverty Action Lab, a research center that brings together economists with a determinedly experimental bent. In particular, its researchers all share a belief in randomized controlled trials - the same sort of test that new drugs have to undergo - as a tool for evaluating poverty alleviation measures.
    Karlan and his co-author, Jonathan Zinman, an associate economics professor at Dartmouth, looked at a bank in the Philippines that offered microloans. They created their controlled experiment by altering the algorithm the bank used to evaluate creditworthiness so that some borderline applicants were randomly denied loans while other otherwise identical applicants had loans approved. The researchers then followed up with the borrowers and nonborrowers to see what difference the loan had made.
    The answer was not much. Neither household income nor spending rose for those who got microloans. And borrowers who did put the money into their businesses - instead of using it, as many did, for household expenses - actually shrank rather than grew their businesses. Karlan and Zinman suggest that this might be because the business owners were taking advantage of the loan to fire unproductive workers to whom they owed financial favors, and those firings seemed to explain the very small gains in profit Karlan and Zinman found. In addition, the gains accrued only to male entrepreneurs, not the women usually targeted by microcredit programs.
    The second study, co-authored by Abhijit Banerjee and Esther Duflo, economics professors at MIT, along with Rachel Glennerster, executive director of the Poverty Action Lab, and an MIT economics doctoral student named Cynthia Kinnan, found a slightly larger impact, though a selective one. Working with a microcredit bank in India that was looking to expand in the city of Hyderabad, the researchers did find some small positive effects. Borrowers who already had a business did see some increase in profit. Households without businesses that the researchers judged more predisposed to start one were found to cut back on spending, suggesting they were saving to augment their loan for a capital business expense like a pushcart or a sewing machine. The researchers also found small but encouraging shifts in household spending across the board, with less money spent on "temptation goods" like alcohol, tobacco, and gambling.
    Still, overall household spending - a key indicator of financial well-being - stayed about the same. And the researchers found no effect on children's health or education levels, and the women in the borrower homes were no more likely to play a role in household decisions than those in the control group.
    To Duflo, this only seems disappointing because expectations for microcredit are so high.
    "I don't see this as a negative finding," she says. When asked why she thinks microcredit didn't boost health and education outcomes, she says, "I would really ask the question, 'Why did we expect all these things to happen?' If you give people access to a financial instrument, it's like any other instrument. It's useful, but it's not like the miracle drug to end poverty."
    For microcredit's defenders, evidence like this is, at best, an incomplete portrait. In part that's because of the relatively short time horizon of the studies.
    "Certainly if people expected to see increasing incomes right away, in 12 months, that might be too much to expect," says Nachiket Mor, an economist and president of India's ICICI Foundation for Inclusive Growth.
    Other microcredit proponents argue that the fact that microcredit has proliferated as fast as it has, with new clients signing on in droves and old ones coming back repeatedly, means it must be providing a reliable benefit to borrowers, if only by allowing them to pay off higher-interest moneylender loans.
    "The fact that [microcredit] has survived commercially, I take that more seriously than any other piece of evidence," says Tyler Cowen, an economics professor at George Mason University who has studied the topic.
    Even among some of microcredit's more passionate proponents, however, there has been a ratcheting down of the rhetoric in recent years. What microcredit may do, they argue, is not transform lives, but simply ameliorate them, giving poor people a more affordable source for credit, and one that, unlike some moneylenders, will not resort to physical violence if someone can't repay.
    "The picture that emerges is not of people climbing out of poverty through microenterprise, but people doing what they need to to get by," says David Roodman, a microcredit expert at the Center for Global Development.
    Nonetheless, the microcredit narrative of entrepreneurship and self-advancement is a stirring one, and still tends to dominate the image microcredit institutions present to the world.
    Karlan sees the romance of this ideology standing in the way of measures that might more directly aid poor households. In many situations, he argues, the most helpful thing for poor households may not be a loan - especially since microloan interest rates can run from 30 up to 100 percent - but making it easier for them to save, or allowing them to buy some form of formal insurance policy against financial shocks. Research has shown that even people making $2 a day can put some money aside, and in many poor neighborhoods people don't save as much as they might simply because there's no trustworthy place to put their savings.
    And if there are interventions that can lift whole neighborhoods - and, ultimately, whole nations - out of poverty, they will probably have to be much broader in scope. Part of the appeal of microcredit is that it avoids the frustrations of anti-poverty campaigns that seek to catalyze economic growth at a large scale. But it's a basic tenet of economics that scale has its advantages. Forty workers at a textile plant are going to be much more productive than 40 microentrepreneur weavers each working by themselves.
    Partly in response to these concerns, Grameen itself has begun to offer a line of loans of up to $10,000 for what might be called mini- rather than microenterprises. And in a more marked shift, a few NGOs have begun to focus on the previously neglected sector of medium-sized businesses in the developing world, looking not just at loans, but buying equity stakes in the companies to provide them with interest-free money. They're bigger investments, and in the end they may have far bigger returns.
    Drake Bennett is the staff writer for Ideas. E-mail drbennett@globe. com .
    © Copyright 2009 Globe Newspaper Company.
    Also Read ENA report on this article (Bangla):
    http://www.khabor. com/news/ prabash/10/ prabasher_ news_10012009_ 0000010.htm
     
     
     
     
     



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    RE: [chottala.com] Mr. Syed Islam, Think Global, Act Locally !!!!!!!.



    Bangladesh achieved substantial growth in farming. Yield is lot more today compared to 20/30 years ago. Hopefully, this growth will continue. This is the only sector where Bangladesh did real improvements. The another area of improvement is cell phone. I have no idea whether it is improvement or wastage of resources. However, communications improvements equally armed better both good and bad people. Cell phones caused improvements in businesses though. But Bangladesh has no genuine long term settled businesses. Most businesses are like seasonal crops. Grows like mushrooms and flops like anything any time anywhere. Monetary corruption is not the only corruption in the country, though it is severe, there are extreme corruptions in political and administrative sectors. There is no ethics nowhere. Top to bottom everybody just loves to have something only for the self whatever way possible. Sharing of resources, power, and wealth is only within the intimate members of the own group; be it social, be it religious, be it administrative, be it political, be it governmental, be it private sector, be it anything. No one hesitates to extort the others whatever way possible for the interest of the own. For real improvements of the country, all sectors such as agricultural, educational, research, political, social, etc. have to be improved; and above all the society has to promote freeing corruptions, and make improvements economically, politically, and humanistically. Only then the environment will permit the growth of organizations through which the devotees would be able to donate the efforts for overall improvements, and the  subject matter experts (SMEs) will get the medium through which the greater improvements of all sectors could be channelized. Bangladesh has to go long way  to be able to achieve that because the entire country is now severely caught up with corruptions and forgeries. I am hopeful that someday Bangladesh will achieve all these and be very prosperous in the world. 
     

     

    To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
    From: dina30_khan@yahoo.com
    Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:07:14 -0700
    Subject: Re: [chottala.com] Mr. Syed Islam, Think Global, Act Locally !!!!!!!.

     
    Mr. Syed Islam

    "In any process, social-political or natural world, if you

    want a change the whole, you have to start from the

    parts that makes the whole."

    It is not incorrect. Your thought is correct "Think Global, Act locally". I don't know where are you living now what's your present nationality. If you are living in Bangladesh it is well known to you what the actual social-political situation in Bangladesh.  Do you find in Bangladesh any self depended political leader or political party without the support in the fields of ideological socio-political & economical fields from out side for thinking locally for doing work locally being independent to the interest for the people of Bangladesh? Are the political leaders locally insentient? Are not the people divided by political leaders & political party with the ijisam & so called ideology which has out side or Global relation?

     

    Is it not true?

    If it is true

    How can you Act locally?

    Before starting locally you need preparation to get understanding & acting skilled man power who can do work with own ideology being self depended to thinking for making own policy & on working according to own policy in the field of social political & economical fields under the leadership possessing the quality of ideological principle feeling in own nationalism, socialism, humanitarism for the people of Bangladesh.

    Bangladesh is a thickly populated & the world poorest country. The political leaders of Bangladesh are not able to face the people's problems are not able to solve the problems of Bangladesh.

    As because the leaders of Bangladesh are not well quality knowledge educated to be efficient for making policy & guide lines rule the country & to lead the people, The people of Bangladesh are not skilled educated due to there is no any lawful good administration & there is no any good knowledge education system in Bangladesh for learning for knowing what needs to learn what needs to do for being skilled work persons to perform their work duty..

    So Bangladesh  is now required to introduce nation wide a system of quality knowledge education to provide all category people for making them in their work fields as quality work persons such as quality knowledge educated politicians quality knowledge educated good administrators quality knowledge educated good teachers  good lawyers & quality knowledge work persons.
    Such as quality knowledge education of
    1)       Moral education for making honest personal life for honest conjugal life & for good family

    2)       For building social  & economical development education are needed of

    3)       Education of technical & moderns science education

    4)       Education of agriculture fishing wood cutting & trees planting

    5)       Education of mechanics maintenance works house making road making ship boat making transport making cal bill river digging. & constructing

    6)       Education of cooking  house hold working business & other home industry

    7)       Education of poultry cow & other animals

    8)       Education of road code traffic rules & transport systems & cleaning

    9)       Education for knowing  & utilizing the resources available in Bangladesh

    10)   Education of health hygienic & sanitation

    11)   Social education of child disable & helpless people caring

    12)   Knowledge education for creating the leaders teachers administrators lawyers & other leading people people who can make environment good politic good policy & good guide lines to rule the country & to guide the people efficiently.

     


    --- On Sun, 4/10/09, Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com> wrote:

    From: Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: [chottala.com] Dina Khan, Think Global, Act Locally !!!!!!!.
    To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
    Received: Sunday, 4 October, 2009, 11:36 PM

     
     
    Ms. Dina Khan
     
    In any process, social-political or natural world, if you
    want a change the whole, you have to start from the
    parts that makes the whole.
     
    The bottom-up approach works much better than Top-down
    approach ...
     
    We need to clean our house first before we criticise others
    for their dirts.
     
    We should not try to hide our "garbages" on verious pretexts.
    We can't justify our wrong doings, communalism,  and evils
    within us through innuendoes because some evil exists
    somewhere else.
     
    We can always think globally [whole], but we always have to
    work locally  first in our own home turf.:
     
    Bangladesh should set an example by creating a truly
    non-communal society [justice of law for humanity & human
    right to all people not being communal minded ,
    in your language] where there is no second class citizen.
      ...
     
    Syed Aslam
     
      
    On 10/3/09, dina khan <dina30_khan@ yahoo.com> wrote:
     Mr Syed Aslam ...
    If you want real charity it needs to think as a whole.
     
    It is better try to understand
    What the actual reasons behind that for are happening such types of tragedy in India Bashkali & other places?
    If you want real charity it needs to think as a whole.
    It is also better to ask them & advise them who are thinking themselves as political leaders as political activists as media activists as human right activists as social workers as author & as news writers of news pagers & for media editors of news papers to be free minded honest thoughtful persons for thinking neutrally all people as human being one nation to write & to speak for all to establishing good administration under the system of lawful democracy at  justice of law for humanity & human right to all people not being communal minded  not creating communal feeling not creating classification among the people being selfish for earning something  .
    --- On Wed, 30/9/09, Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com> wrote:
    From:Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: [chottala.com] Ms Dina Khan, Portraying Bashkali Tragedy as mere "Ddacoity" is still questionable !
    To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
    Received: Wednesday, 30 September, 2009, 8:08 PM

     
    Portraying Bashkali Tragedy as mere "Ddacoity" is still questionable !
     
     
    Ms Dina Khan  
     
    You diverting from the issue under discussion [your business as usual]
    The topic was the ramnants of communalism that exist even today in
    various pockets of Bangladesh, where minorities "soft targets" .
    The communalism in India or other countries are beyond the scope
    of current discussion.
     
    Your comment about Islam as a religion is well understood.
    But, question is how come Bangladesh being a land of the Musulmans,
    all kinds of criminal activities and law & order problems premeates the
    country?
     
    Islamic sounding rethorics and "superiority" of Islam do not prevent the
    criminals to continue with their henious activities in our Bangladesh.. ...
     
    You have been wrongly accusing Mr. Shymal Datta on issues in
    India. The meeting under discussion was arrainged by DORP 
    not by Mr. Shymal Datta. Many others including the Deputy Speaker
    of Bangladesh Parliament, Mr. Shawkat Ali, emphasized that
    proclaiming a particular religion as the State Religion undermines
    other religions in the country
    Mr. Shayamol Dutta mentioned that in 1947-division was  based
    on communalism ....that communalism created divisions among the
    people, the minorities (religious) have become aliens in their own land
    ......the ramnants of communalism still exist ....
     
    The puputrators of the criminals behind Banshkhali Taagedy, the so-called
    docoits, are not punished because of heavy handedness by some politically
    connected people. To many reputed commentator "the reason put forward
    for Banskhali  massacre as something related to dacoity is far from
    convincing. "
    According to the lone surviving member  of the victim-family Bimol Sheel,
    the criminals are now roaming freely & openly ...
     
    There should be no denying of the reality that although Bangladesh
    is a "moderate muslim country" communalism in various pockets
    in the country still exists where hindus are soft targets of the criminals.
     
    Even Madam Khaleda Zia just yesterday in her speech at Sirajgong,
    mentioned that
    "the AL is frequently speaking about secularism "but the party men
    are grabbing property, houses and lands of Hindu community and
    unleashed repression on them."
     
    This indicates that ramnants of communalism do exist accross party
    lines in our country and Mr. Shymal Datta's and other speakers'
    concerns at the DORP seminar are genuine.
     
    For sure, the communal violences in India or any other country must
    be condemned, but that should be done in a different thread, not
    while discussing Banshkhali Tragedy or any other communal
    incidents at home. No matter how small it is, communalism at
    home can not justified by any  pretext, whatsoever. The
    communal attitude of all sorts at home must be totally
    abhorred and condemned, not condoned.
     
    Just like charity, the total eradication of communal attitude
    should also start at home. We should not try to put our "dirts"
    under the rugs .....As a nation we must establish "Zero Tolerance"
    on all sorts of communalism: hidden or open.
     
    PS: Bringing Norendra Modi and Guzrat riots & communal trends in India
    while discussing the conference arranged by DORP is out and out an
    outcome of communal attitude.. Mr. Shymal Datta may be right,
    Mr. Shymal Datta may be wrong ... but neither himself nor the Hindus
    in Bangladesh bear any responsibility for communal violences in
    India [East Punjab Kashmir Gujrat Assam etc].
     
     
    Syed Aslam
     
     
     
    On 9/28/09, dina khan <dina30_khan@ yahoo.com> wrote:
    Dear Mr Aslam,
     
    Islam does not create communal feeling. Islam does not create any feeling to hate any body. Islam does not create any classification among the people as upper class or as lower class people. Islam is for justice of humanity & human right considering all human being as one human nation under the umbrella of loving peaceful family. Islam teaches the people to build successful personal life for loving married couple for building happy loving peaceful family which can help for building secure society for peaceful  nation & peaceful world.  Islam is religion for loving people for helping people not for burning people or not looting other's property not for doing any injustice to any body.
     
    Bangladeshi lower class Hindus (Upper Class gone India) are not insecure in Bangladesh. Causes Bangladeshi Muslims are not communal minded at all. Causes Islam does not allow it. But Indian upper class Hindus are very sensitive minded & communal. Indian Muslims along other minority community & lower class Hindus are not secure in India
    When Bangladeshi (lower) Hindus raise any question against the Muslim community in Bangladesh they should remember that they are better secured in Bangladesh than Indian Muslims & lower class Hindus. They should ask the Indian Government administration for taking lawful legal action against the communal activities done by upper class Hindu activists against the minority people in India & unlawfully killing & burning Muslims people in Kashmir Gujarat Assam & other places in India. Indian politician's policy is mainly responsible for. Creating riot & killing people in India & later Bangladesh.
    Mr. Shymal Datta as an editor of Bhorer Khagag neutrally can write in the editorial Coolum for establishing humanity & human right in India considering the people as human nation not considering the people as minority or lower or upper caste people.
    The reason of all problems is that there is no lawful good administration  at any where in Bangladesh India & Pakistan to establishing justice for humanity & human right under the system of lawful democracy. 
    At some part of India such as East Punjab Kashmir Gujrat Assam & other places are being ruled by army controlled & army helped administration under system of so called democracy... In Pakistan it is seen that there all administrations are under Army control.
    In Bangladesh it is better known to you than me, so 
    How can you hope punishment to any Dacoit?
    After 1/11
    How many dacoits & chandabaj were arrested? Did you not read the news during the CTG Administration in Bangladesh
    Are they not released with out punishment?  
    Is it called lawful Administration or Justice of Democracy in Bangladesh?
    Did you not read the speech of Mr. Jalil the EX GS & present Advisor of BAL?
    Can you tell that Bangladesh is being ruled under lawful administration for establishing justice for humanity & human right?
    What situations in India & Pakistan are?
    Are the media people in Bangladesh or in India or in Pakistan writing or speaking any against inhuman activities without being communal to establishing humanity & human right for justice of law or for lawful democracy?
    To solve of all problems
    i)                     People specially the political leaders & the administrators in administrations are needed to be quality educated persons in learning to know what the real problems of the people & to learn how can be solved their problems by establishing lawful justice under lawful Administration for justice & do  
    ii)                   Media people can be honest sincere in circulating correct news without creating any problem news by creating false news or by creating communal feeling & situations.
    iii)                  The lawful system of lawful democracy can create lawful honest politicians & lawful media
    iv)                  The lawful politicians can establish lawful administration for ruling the country in lawfully in doing trial against all criminal activities to establish social justice.
    v)                    It needs for the leaders of the country to think positively for creating educated quality people nation wide quality education are needed to provide to all category people at least minimum standard for educating them as quality understanding persons for building quality nation.
    The administration leaded by dacoit administrators under the dacoit politicians can never be done lawful trial against any dacoit for justice & quality educated people not also be created.
      --- On Fri, 25/9/09, Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com> wrote:
    From: Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: [chottala.com] Attention Ms Dina Khan, if Bashkali Tragedy was dacoity, why the criminals are not punished yet ?
    To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
    Received: Friday, 25 September, 2009, 8:50 AM

     
    If  Bashkali Tragedy was dacoity, why the criminals are not punished yet ?
    Is there a cover-up by some powerful people?
     
    WRT:
     
    Ms Dina Khan
     
    What are you talking about .......?
     
    Do you still have questions in your mind that Hindus in
    Bangladesh are a minority religious group?
     
    Is not Islam a distinctly different religion than that of
    Hinduism?
     
    Have a reality check ....
     
    Today's Bangladesh has a constitutionally declared
    State Religion which is Islam...As such, the Hindus may be
    deemed as second class citizens, according to many ...
    Just because there is no seperate electorate for the Hindus
    and the Muslims both in India and in Bangladesh does not
    mean that communalism and persecution of religious
    minorities is totally absent.
     
    The communalism thrieves on social backwardness, fanaticism,
    and narrow vested secterian interest, sometimes political
    interest.
     
    Please read the news item on the seminar organized
    by DORP again:
    before you continue to give further twist on the issue under discussion.
     
    My point was "Mr. Siraj uddowllah brought Gujrat Incident out of context
    which definitely had a communal undertone.
     
    On the Bashkhali Tragedy your mentor Mr. Siraj uddowllah has every
    right to pass his opinion & present his points of views "as a human right activist"
    However, the seminar in question presented a different perspective.
    It was organized by Developmental Organization of the Rural Poor [DORP].
    The Deputy Speaker of Bangladesh Parliament, Mr. Shawkat Ali,
    emphasized that proclaiming a particular religion as the State Religion
    undermines other religions in the country.
     
    According to the news item, Mr. Shayamol Dutta was only a key note speaker,
    who mentioned that in 1947-division was  based on communalism ....that
    communalism created divisions among the people, the minorities (religious)
    have become aliens in their own land ......the ramnants of communalism still
    exist ....
     
    The other speakers also expressed their concerns on the disturbance
    of communal harmony in our country.
     
     As we all know, the culprits of the Bashkhali killings has not
    yet been punished. According to the lone surviving member  of the
    victim-family Bimol Sheel, the criminals are now roaming freely ...
     
    Is there a cover-up attempt to hide the crime? Why?
     
    If  Bashkali Tragedy was a dacoity case, why the criminals are not
    punished yet ? Is  there some "powerful people"  behind the docoity?
    Should not these criminals be given examplary punishment for
    burning 11 people to death? Six years have already passed.....
     
    I still wonder why Mr. Shayamol Dutta is being singled out by yourself
    [Ms Dina Khan] and  Mr. Siraj uddowllah for arranging the conference,
    although the conference was arranged by an organization called Developmental
    Organization of the Rural Poor [DORP].
     
    Again, Ms Dina Khan you are  saying:
    "Mr Aslam  Are you acting for cmmunal Raw? "
    Can you explain you statement and tell us how do relate
    your hypothesis with the issue under discussion.
    Is that the only "LOGIC" you have?
     
    Syed Aslam
     
    On 9/24/09, dina khan <dina30_khan@ yahoo.com> wrote:
    Attention Mr. Syed Aslam
    You are forgetting the root of the point.
    Why the Hindus are being called the minority people in Bangladesh??
    Is not Bangladesh a country of secular democracy?
     Are the Hindus in Bangladesh casting their votes separately as minority people?
    & Have they separate administration in Bangladesh as minority??
    Why the Muslims in India are being called the minority people in India?
    Is not India a democratic Secular country??
    Are the Muslims in India casting their votes separately as minority people? & Have they separate administration In India as Muslims are minority people??
    Answer is. < NO>
     
    Why did Mr. Symol Dutta being an editor of a news paper & others being as human right activists call a round table conference in the name of minority community insecure in Bangladesh? 
    Are they not creating communal feeling & communal situation by holding such of talking & meeting or conference ?   
    It was better for ( them ) the editors of news (NEWS means News of north east west south) papers & for the so called human right activists to think for dicussing as a whole  what are the reasons what are the back ground behind that for happening such type accidents at any where in Bangladesh & at other part of the world including India.
    But they had done it as communal activists not as an editor or as human right activists
    Mr. Dowlla has passed his opinion as a human right activist not creating communal feeling.
     Mr Aslam
    Are you acting for cmmunal Raw?
     
    -- On Thu, 24/9/09, Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com> wrote:
    From: Syed Aslam <Syed.Aslam3@ gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: [chottala.com] A family of Hindus in Bashkali were the victims of dacoity and not a reparcation of Guzrat incidents.
    To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com

    Received: Thursday, 24 September, 2009, 1:31 AM

     
     
    Dear All
     
    Mr. Siraj uddowllah brought Gujrat Incident out of context in his original
    blamed Mr. Shayamol Dutta for not arranging a conference on Guzrat
    when there was a massacre of Muslims.
     
    Mr. Siraj uddowlah went further to request the Bhorer Kagoj
    owner Mr. Saber H. Chowdhuri to take action this one eyed
     hindu editor   . {anything personal ????? ]
     
    Now, Mr. uddowllah is changing his stance.....: ::
    He mentions that Bashkhali horror was  a case of docoity.
     
    The tragic Bashkhali incident could be very well be the acts
    of some miscreants who are docoits..... .
    Mr. uddowllah should have mentioned that in the first place instead
    of bringing Norendra Modi and Guzrat riots while discussing the
    conference arranged by DORP.
     
    Now, in his present post Mr. Siraj uddowllah says " A family of Hindus in
    Bashkali were the victims of dacoity and not a reparcation of
    Guzrat incidents."
     
    Many people have indicated the incident as communal matter, which
    may be  debatable, but I have not seen anyone calling the Bashkhali
    tragedy a "reparcation of Guzrat incident ".
     
    Can Mr. Siraj uddowllah point out where did someone has called the
    Bashkhali Tragedy as the repurcation of Guzrat incident?
    As far as I have seen Mr. Siraj uddowllah is the only person who brought
    Guzrat massacre while talking about Bashkhali incident ...
     
    I only objected to his bringing up the  issue of Gujrat Riots while
    discussing an tragic incident at home. Mr. Siraj uddowllah's accusation
    in chottala message # 10390  is misleading and totally unfounded.
    There is no mix up in my position.... we should not just bring incidents
    in India or any other country, out of context explicitly or implicitly, while
    discussing a tragic incident in Bangladesh.
     
     
    Mr. Siraj uddowllah is at liberty to discuss & condemn
    Norendro Modi's crimes and Massacre of Muslims in a different
    thread .... But, blaming Mr. Shayamol Dutta for not holding a
    conference on Gujrat riot has definitely given his post a vivid
    communal.undertone  ....... there  is an attitude problem that
    thrieves on innuendoes .... 
     
    There is no denying of the fact that there are many "pockets" in
    Bangladesh where minorities, including the Hindus are soft targets
    of the criminals, docoits and the land grabbers ......
     
    Thanks for everyone's patience.
     
    Syed Aslam
    On 9/17/09, siraj uddowllah <siraj_58@hotmail. com> wrote:
    Dear chottala readers,
     I also wonder why Mr. Syed Aslam is trying to mix up the case of dacoity incidents with that of communal riots of Guzrat and twisting up the issue towards the communal side. There is no doubt the Bashkali incident was really an inhuman tragedy caused by some dacoits unluckily it was with the Hindu family which may be with the Muslim family also to loot money, ornaments and many other valuable articles according to their suitability and opportunity,  and if given any obstacles the nature of these inhuman dacoits to kill them also. There is no resemblance of this dacoity case and also not any reparcation of the communal incidents caused by the fanatic Hindus instigated by a so called well known top political leader of Guzrat happened to be a chief Minister of that particular area named Norendra Singh Modi doing all sorts of rampage, mass killing, looting the Muslim shop intentionally and causing killing of about hundreds or more Muslims by burning them alive mentioning to teach the Muslims how to burn according to the way of Hindu rituals. Not only that those notorious fanatic people tearing and burning our Holy Quran which we used to touch with respect

    The dacoits of Bashkali incidents if recognized and caught would definitely be punished by hanging them by our court of justice for committing such a heinous crime like killing some people of an innocent family even not required to arrange a round table conference also. Mr. Aslam has shown so many links and documents of  some commission made by the Indian high court but what happened for those known culprit especially for Norendra Singh Modi who was the root of all these incidents. He is freely moving in the common public place without any punishment given to him by the Indian high court yet. Because of his misdeeds he did in Guzrat he was refused to give any visa to U.S.A. even.  

    Yes I quite agree what Mr. Syed Aslam says people of Bangladesh have every rights to discuss the issues of communal harmony at home, especially towards the minorities if they feel insecure and threatened due to sporadic incidents of intentional communal disharmony. The minorities should have enough assurance and guarantee that such incidents would not be repeated elsewhere in the country. But here in this case of dacoity why to get the smell of communal disharmony as our country not like that of India is well known  as an internationally recognised moderate Muslim country. Actually how much it is wise to mix up the dacoity incidents with the communal case of Guzrat. Can anybody suggest how to stop the dacoity case if it happened again and again suddenly in any place at any time. Is there any benefit of arranging such a round table conference by giving it a shape of a communal case as this was tried by the Editor of Bhorer Kagoz. Because this was not the case of communal disharmony and intolerance towards religious minorities.

    Dowllah. 

    The following posting by Syed Aslam on 16.9.2009: 
    Hindus in Bangladesh do not bear any responsibility for the Gujrat riots......
    Why blame them ?
     
     
     
    Dear All
     
    Like charity communal harmony should also  begin at home:
     
    People of Bangladesh have rights to discuss the issues of communal
    harmony at home, especially the minorities if they feel insecure and
    threatened due to sporadic incidents. The minorities should have
    enough assurance and gurranttee that such incidents would not be
    repeated elsehere in the country.
     
    Hindus in Bangladesh do not bear any responsibility
    for the Gujrat riots and should not be blamed as such. The Gujrat riot
    has been brought out of context while discussing Bashkhali tragedy.
    And BTW, Development Orgnasination of the Rural Poor (DORP),
    a non-government organization, arranged the seminar titled 'National
    Seminar on Social Harmony and Rights- Banshkhali Tragedy' at
    the National Press Club. 
     
    Blaming Bangladeshi hindus in general or  Bhorer Kagoj editor
    Mr. Shayamal  Dutta in particular, for not "arranging a round table
    conference"  for incidents elsewhere [Gujrat riot] is essentially 
    exhibits religious prejudice & intolerance through hidden aspersions
    and innuendoes, and may lean towards communal provocation at
    it's worst.
     
    I wonder why Mr. Dowllah is mixing up issues?
     
    The People of Bangladesh has maintained a very high degree of
    communal harmony and tolerance towards religious minorities,
    in general.  However, there are small pockets where  incidents of
    violences against hindus (or other minorities) has occured
    instgated by a narrow coterie of vested interest.
     
    The Bashkhali incident  was one such tragedy.
    Our nation should not condone any of such incidents under any
    pretext whatsoever. Also, we should not put our dirts under the
    rugs ..... We should maintain a  zero tolerance policy on all
    sort of sectarianism and communalism in our country.
    All sorts of communal violence and attrocities should be
    exposed, condemned & punished.
     
    Communal violences & attrocities in Gujrat on anywhere
    in India or China can not justiy the same in Bangladesh.
    FYI, Norendra Modi and his BJP cum Sangha Paribar &
    Bojrong Dol  goons have been condenmed by the sane
    voices in India and all over the world.
     
    Norendra Modi has been barred fron entering USA several times
    for his role in Gujrat  riots. Various Human Rights organisations in
    India and USA have not only condemned but fighting for justice &
    punishment of the real purputrators of 2002 Gujrat massacre of the
    Muslims. The Human Rights organisations also played a  major role
    in revoking Norendra Modi's US visa in 2008 and in his previous
    attempt to visit USA.
     
    Relared:
    Special courts for Gujarat riots - BBC News:
    'Gujarat riots had State support':
     

    Syed Aslam
    FW: [chottala.com] ˜State religion undermines others: Deputy speaker

    Dear all chottala readers,

    Mr. Shayamal Dutta editor of "Dainik Bhorer Kagoz" arranged a rounnd table conference regarding Bashkali incidents but why he did not arrange such type of conferences when thousands of Muslims were massacred and burned alive in Guzrat by a fanatic hindu chief Minister Norendra Singh Modi. The Bashkali hindu families were human being and Guzrat Muslims were not human? Mr. Shaymal Dutta is taking the full advantage of his being a hindu editor of a newspaper like "Bhorer Kagoz" to arrange such a conference about incidents of a hindu family in Bashkali. Being a responsible editor of a renowned newspaper like Bhorer Kagoz he should be above all sorts of religious prejudice. Mr. Saber Hossain Chowdhury owner of "Bhorer Kagoz" is requested to take action against this one eyed editor of highly reputed newspaper, being involved in trying to create a communal feeling of a peace loving peoples of secular Bangladesh

     
    Dowllah.  
     
     

    .
     
    .



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