My comments are inserted below.
From: Syed Ali <sabahatca@hotmail.com>
أَعُوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ
بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
اسلام علیکم ورحمۃ اللہ وبرکاتہDear Gawah ChoosT,
I don't know anything about Hzt Omr, it is not mentioned in alQuraan and thus it is not important in Islam.
For some other points of yours:
Assyrians are still living in Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, and Kurdistan.
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TURKMAN: Assyrians and others, who did become Moslims. Syria 4%, Iraq 3.2%, Iran, Jordan, Turkey, Kurdistan 0%.
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Though, their majority migrated into Zoroastrianism and Shiaism with their original believes and rituals like Ashora, matam, fire-worship and Panjattan paak. BA'AL, BA'AL Shameen, Zanobia, and Nimrood are still very popular in those regions and their temples/palaces etc. are well preserved. A large number of homosexuals is easily found in those regions keeping their ancient religion alive. Was it exactly Ba'al who started that or not but no muslim glorifies this inhumane deed.
Southern Iraq is exactly opposite to Syria being Northwest to it. Mari AKA til-ul-hareri, supposed to be the oldest found civilization between Syria and Iraq.
Languages are normally adopted just by the amalgamation of people and that is why they always contain words from some other languages too. If genocide eliminates the languages then why Spanish is densely Arabic?????
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TURKMAN: Only a 100% plus Slavery of Households causes extinction of a language of such nations and that was committed against N. African nations only. There was no Genocide committed by Moslims in Spain. Whoever said, "Spanish is densely Arabic" does not know Spanish. "Se habla Espnole?". Spanish is a Latin Language and a sister language of Italian and French. Its not related to Arabic.
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Arabic came into being mostly from Aramaic and North African still speak their native languages.
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TURKMAN: N African languages had nothing common with Semitic language, the Mother of Arabic and Hebrew. Aramaic was mother of Semitic language. All people living in N. Africa are Arabs or sons of Female Slaves of Arabs who's N. African nations were decimated by Arab Moslims and Black Africans. DNA Test Data have already proven this.
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They run in their tribes like a sacred element and even after ISLAMISATION they have not given them up. As a matter of fact, most of the blood is still shed based on the tribal issues after muslim's genocides.
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TURKMAN: New Tribe formations of Arab Occupiers have taken place in last 1400 years. They are not ancient tribes otherwise, they would be speaking N. African languages.
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Spain is a country where so-called muslims ruled for over 800 years and then they were completely wiped out.
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TURKMAN: Forgetting, how many had converted to Christianity? The rest had left and settled in N. Africa because that choice was given by pretty religious Christian Queen Isabella. Only who claimed they had converted but had remained Moslims were asked to eat Pork. Almost all of them ate Pork. Only a few did not. They were promptly executed and their Household was deported to N. Africa and their Property was confiscated.
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And then it (Spain) was a place where there was NO MUSLIM and NO MASJID, none whatsoever.
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TURKMAN: And the Writer of this line is a 'Kaazib' because there stand dozens of huge and small Mosques in Spain that every Tourist like me can see. There has been a lot of new Mosques built by Moslim Immigrants in Spain because old Mosques are being preserved as a Historical Relics unlike Jain, Hindu, Buddhist and (some) Sikh Temples in your Islamic Republic of Pakistan by you people, who claim, Islam is the most tolerant, multi-cultural, pluralistic religion. Shame on Liars ...!
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Nonetheless, crosses were hung in the necks witnessing the remembrance of ALLAH in the beats of the hearts below. There dwellings were seized and occupied and yet participate in tourists attraction bearing the Arab signatures. Al-Hamra and Grenada are still arabic though Taletala, Ashbelia and many other places are baptised. Mazketa-Cathedral does not offer any secularism and any visitor can easily kick the demons away with the help of the welcoming priests.
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TURKMAN: Almost all of this is rhetorical B.S.
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Greek and Roman Empires are another example from the past where the golden rule of the British Empire seems like present. Slavery was at its peak in all those times. And history does not account Islam for any increase in that trend or number of salves. In fact, it is noted that in so-called Islamic reigns slavery was reduced massively. Islam is the only religion that has given rights to slaves and promissed equality in hereafter too.
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TURKMAN: Sure, sure. All the Arab Tribes, Gulf Nations, Oman, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, N. Africa were conquered and Households of Defeated Nations were enslaved but Islam did 'not account for any increase in trend or numbers of Slaves'. Who had then sold the Jewish Slaves of Khazars and Turkmen to Europeans that they had so many Kurdish and Turkish Speaking Slaves? Who had sold all the Black Africans to Colonists of Americas?
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But why would you pay any attention to that. You have no respect for ALLAH and your brains are dystopian.
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TURKMAN: Yeah and Allah knows, how much you are lying.
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وَهَـذَا كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ مُبَارَكٌ فَاتَّبِعُوهُ وَاتَّقُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ 6:155
6:155 And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous, that ye may receive mercy
Syed Ali.
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TURKAN: Then, what had happened to 'Allah's mercy', when QraamTayin, Halaakoo Khan and Amir Taimoor were building Mounds with Heads of Arabs in Baghdad every 100 or 200 years? What happened to 'Allah's Mercy' that 90% of Moslims live in Poverty and their countries of are backwards?
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:15:15 -0700
From: turkman@sbcglobal.net
Sorry to inform you, Hanif the Forger has proven nothing because you can not keep proving your points right by keep forging new Lies. The Problem with these Forgers is, they do not know full details of History of Islam. The Question is, if Hzt. Omar had banned Slavery, ...
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* ... why he himself had Slaves until he was assassinated by one?
* ... what happened to Speakers of Assyrian language in Syria and in what is presently southern Iraq?
* ... why suddenly everybody started speaking Arabic in Syria and southern Iraq if Assyrian Speakers there were not slaughtered and their Households were not enslaved?
* ... how come Sudan, N. Africa up to Iraq now speak Arabic if these lands were not colonized by Arabs after they had cleansed them with the nations that lived there?
* ... why nobody has found anybody speaking any of the languages of N. Africa since Moslim Invasion?
* ... what happened to them if they were not slaughtered and their Households were not enslaved and sold worldwide?
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"Oh, all those people loved Islam and their Prophet so much that they stopped speaking their Mother Tongues", right?
Well, then how come no Moslims east of Iraq up to Indonesia were of the same kind?
The Reason is clear. There were not enough Arabs to keep occupation of such vast lands and slaughtering them all would have killed Economy, which would have inflicted on prosperity.
This new Forgery about Hzt. Omar has been created because in his regime from 634 to 644 A.D. Arabs had started their invasion and huge monstrous occupation of lands outside Arabian Peninsula.
Real Descendants of those Arabs themselves do not try to hide facts and they are honest. Its the lowlife half-breed Pakistanis born out of their Slave Girls, who keep forging lies shamelessly in the name of defending Islam though they are actually defending the Rapists of their Slave Ancestoral Mothers because they think, they are real Arabs though they are called 'Miskeen' by Saudis and treated as low-life in Saudi Arabia.
"MooDaaEe soosT gwaah choosT"
From: Mubashir Inayet <minayet@yahoo.com>
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* ... why he himself had Slaves until he was assassinated by one?
* ... what happened to Speakers of Assyrian language in Syria and in what is presently southern Iraq?
* ... why suddenly everybody started speaking Arabic in Syria and southern Iraq if Assyrian Speakers there were not slaughtered and their Households were not enslaved?
* ... how come Sudan, N. Africa up to Iraq now speak Arabic if these lands were not colonized by Arabs after they had cleansed them with the nations that lived there?
* ... why nobody has found anybody speaking any of the languages of N. Africa since Moslim Invasion?
* ... what happened to them if they were not slaughtered and their Households were not enslaved and sold worldwide?
.
"Oh, all those people loved Islam and their Prophet so much that they stopped speaking their Mother Tongues", right?
Well, then how come no Moslims east of Iraq up to Indonesia were of the same kind?
The Reason is clear. There were not enough Arabs to keep occupation of such vast lands and slaughtering them all would have killed Economy, which would have inflicted on prosperity.
This new Forgery about Hzt. Omar has been created because in his regime from 634 to 644 A.D. Arabs had started their invasion and huge monstrous occupation of lands outside Arabian Peninsula.
Real Descendants of those Arabs themselves do not try to hide facts and they are honest. Its the lowlife half-breed Pakistanis born out of their Slave Girls, who keep forging lies shamelessly in the name of defending Islam though they are actually defending the Rapists of their Slave Ancestoral Mothers because they think, they are real Arabs though they are called 'Miskeen' by Saudis and treated as low-life in Saudi Arabia.
"MooDaaEe soosT gwaah choosT"
From: Mubashir Inayet <minayet@yahoo.com>
I think Mr Hanif has made his point from the Qur'an and also proved it from those who love history (Hzt Omar's story). People in those days freed their slaves but we also read that some slaves chose to remain as servants with their former owners on account of their treatment.
Now what Muslims (or Christians or Jews) do and what their books say can and are two different things.
Yes, for our time and age, the credit goes to the US for banning it. Whether it was based on their faith or humanity, it does not matter.
From: S Turkman <turkman@sbcglobal.net>
You are contradicting yourself and showing your bias against Christians here instead of convincing me of anything. You claim Hitler's Genocide of Jews can not be blamed on Christianity and no credit should go to Christianity for Christians doing a Good Deed like ending Slavery in USA but Islam should get credit for having one ruler out of hundreds in 1400 years, Hzt. Omar, who had banned Slavery just temporarily and it had restarted after his death two years later again. Could you tell me, if Hzt. Omar had really banned Slavery and everything you wrote is correct, how come he had not freed his own Slave, the one, who had assassinated him with a Dagger laced with Poison?
From: MOHAMMED HANIF <hanif_mo@hotmail.com>
Dear all/ Turkman slam and salawatHazrat</ b> &l t;/ span> Omar's measures to restrict and phase out slavery 1. It is attributed to Hazrat Omar that "the children of Adam are born free and no one has right to enslave them".2. Caliph Omar also decreed that all war captives have ultimate liberty to choose their religion; whether to embrace Islam or another religion. (page 456)3. The converts however, would enjoy full rights but non-Muslim would be subject(ed) to pay jizya . (Al-Farooq page-261 by Allma Shibli Naumani - biography of Hazrat Omar). 4. No war captives to be reduced to slavery (ibid) 5. Moreover, those who were taken as slaves in battles, Hazrat Omar ordered to free them. (ibid) [In accordance with prescribed method in Sura Muhammad 47: 4]. 6. A companion of Prophet Hazrat Ans refused to adhere to Caliph's ordinance. Hazrat Omar flogged him for his disobedience and quoted verse (24:33) to hazrat Ans as an evidence of the Qur'anic injunction in his evidence. (ibid p-457) It is therefore not entirely true that no efforts was made to end slavery by Islam. People often forget that we are judging people of 7th century in our much librated society of today. Please bear in mind that slavery has changed its shape and method but it still exists in many forms and controls our lives beyond obvious imagination and recognition. I give you that not much has changed in Saudi society even today a non-Arab Muslim can not acquire Saudi nationality, have right to welfare or own business on his/her individual name even though he may be born in the Kingdom. In any business Saudi national will have more than 50% stake and kick non Arab out at will and no protection afforded by racist an dunjust state law enforcing authorities. This is blatant and clear form of riba (there may be some exceptions to the rule that I am not aware of). This is the reality but Qur'an, Muhammad and Islam cannot be held responsible for their inhumane and appalling treatment of fellow human beings. Islam and Muslims are not necessarily compatible with each other. The same way one cannot blame christianity for gassing of millions of innocent Jews by a Christian state. I used to credit Abraham Lincoln (USA President) for emancipation of slaves but recently I saw a documentary on his life that changed my perception and from my hero he has tyurned to zero. Documentary gave credible evidence that freeing of slave wasn't economically viable for the white natives. The legislation to free black American wasn't changed on fear of God, on the basis of kindness. Een Khuda nane duhad jane burd - Aan khuda jane duhad nane duhad (Dr Iqbal) (Human master hands out bread by taking dignity away. However, God gives nan as well keeps man's dignity intact)Hanif
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:44:14 -0700 From: turkman@sbcglobal.netFACTS: . * Meaning of Arabic Phrase 'Right Hand Possession' = What you own free of all encumbrances. What you own 100%. Therefore, if you own a Slave it means that Slave also. * The word for Captive in Arabic used in Qoraan can not be used for Animals. Therefore, 'Captives' means, ones who have to be distributed amongst Moslims as Slaves, who participated in that war, when they were made Captives. * A have already explained the variety of ways they can be freed in my post. 1. After Collecting Ransom. 2. Out of kindness of your Heart. 3. Paying the Owner and freeing Male Slaves if they have become Moslims. Nothing about freeing Female Slaves in Islamic Literature, Qoraan or HaDees can be found. * Its a lie that Prophet led a 'Movement to free Female Slaves'. * Not only Moslim Kings but ordinary rich also owned Slaves. You could tell by Number of Slaves one owned, his Prosperity. If one old man, lower Middle Class. If a pretty White 16 years old Female, rich because they used to cost the most. Slaves were bought and sold all the time and all of them were not Captured in war either.
From: Kaukab Siddique <butshikana@gmail.com>
Pervezi does not know what he is talking about.Slavery was forbidden as early as Sura al-Balad [in the Makkan period]. Read it.Mubascher is copying pervez who put it at a much later date, 47:4."Those whom your right hands possess" were not slaves but CAPTIVES.Islam teaches a great variety of ways to end captivity.The Hadith of Muhammad, pbuh, shows how the Prophet, pbuh, led the movement to end the captivity of women captured in war.The context of war is understood through Hadith. The Qur'an is not an academic book for pervezis. It is related DIRECTLY to the life of the Prophet, pbuh. documented in Hadith.Muslim rulers started taking slaves because they believed in QUR'AN ONLY and interpreted the Qur'an as they wished and not as the Prophet, pbuh, had interpreted it.-------------------------------------------------------------
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