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Monday, March 30, 2009

[chottala.com] Real change -


Fight with hockstick within ladies hall of DU.
 
isn't it a real hange, our sisters are advancing with equal footstep of our brothers.

 
Present relation of AL with india can be compared only with extra marital affairs. Will it bring any good to AL and Bangladesh or disaster as extramartial affairs always bring ?
DU women's hall sees factional clash
Tue, Mar 31st, 2009 2:22 am BdST
Dial 2324 from your mobile for latest news  
Dhaka, Mar 30 (bdnews24.com) - At least six students were injured in a clash between two BCL factions of Dhaka University's Shamsunnahar Hall just after midnight Monday, over control of the hall, said residents.

Dhaka University's proctor Saiful Islam Khan told bdnews24.com at around 1:15am that university authorities were yet to confirm how the clash was sparked.

"We don't know who brought the hockey sticks into the hall," he said.

Asked about the number of injured, he said, "It appears to me that one or two students may be taken to Dhaka Medical College Hospital."

The clash broke out at around 12:15am, as two factions of Chhatra League came at each other with hockey sticks, said the hall's residents.

The hall's BCL unit organising secretary Sharna alleged: "A rival faction led by the hall's BCL unit general secretary attacked us."

She said seven or eight students as well as a house tutor were injured. "They used hockey sticks to attack us."

None of the other group, however, was available for comment.

bdnews24.com/gma/jf/zr/0223h



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Re: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!

Dear Lost Dream
 
Thanks for your advice. I accept my mistake being too emotional and abusive. I apologise.
it is true that everyone has a right to own voice. but i became highly irritated when mr asghar wrote, "If we want to live in a peaceful world, then we must destroy the Quran and the Hadiths." Do you call this freedom of speech? is he not being too agressive? how can he make a comment like that? he is at liberty to criticize Holy Quran or islam, but should he really attack a religion in this way? thats what made me emotional. i never tried to misuse my right to voice. i was seriously mistaken in using the language. Never will repeat it.
 
Hope you will forgive me now.
 
Regards

Ahsan


--- On Sun, 3/29/09, Lost Dream <lostadream@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Lost Dream <lostadream@hotmail.com>
Subject: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!
To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 8:59 PM


Dear Mr. Ahsan,

Lest you for forgot that everyone has a right to put forward his/her thoughts as long as they do not become abusive in their langauge. You need to control your temper, preferably seek "Temper Management". Using foul language does not improve your opinion instead it gives a feeling about the depth of your knowledge, which is extremely poor.

Mr. Ashgar writes a lot of things about Islam, its tradition, its culture and followers, most of his writings are backed up by quatation of the Holy Quran, maybe his interpretation is different from most Islamic followers but never have I found abusive langauge. If you wish to contradict his posting, please do so intelligently, not by assumptions.

Now regarding your curse against him, are you trying to tell the world that people who suffer from incurable diseases, such as cancer or ESRD are all sinners against the Quran, are you stupid or joking. Many great men and women have died because of this diseases, my father and three of my sisters, and they were some of the best persons I know, none of them had anything to do with writings or deeds against any religion whatsoever. Therefore Mr. Ahsan, please write with intelligence not emotions.

If the Moderator supports the fanatics and does not allow openess I guess he/she should open up a Madrasa, instead of a International open forum.

Kind regards.






To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
From: ahsan3332@yahoo. com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:50:02 -0700
Subject: Re: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!

Dear Moderator
 
Thanks for your reply.
 
Regards

Ahsan


--- On Sat, 3/28/09, Hafiz Ahsan <ahsan3332@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Hafiz Ahsan <ahsan3332@yahoo. com>
Subject: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!
To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 10:18 AM

.
 
Moderator Note: Mr. Mohammad Ashgar or msa40@aol.com is not a member of Chottala group. I double checked it. His message was not approved from our Chottala group but by the Khabor group (Please check the chain). We approved Mr. Enayet Ullah's message which he sent to us as response to Mr. Asghar's orginal post. We do not condone nor allow any emails that insults any religion. Howver, we can't control other groups. Thanks. ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
 
Excuse me chottala group..but I find this group has been polluted by some ppl. for example, who is this Mohammad Asghar msa40@aol.com? his mails have entered into this group (check below).
 
He is passing odd remarks about our Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). he is just a desk top mule. His knowledge is not only shallow, but extremely negative. how can he claim to have a Muslim name? he must be a member of the "Khazars", the neo-jews or converted jews. what he knows about Islam and our Prophet (PBUH)? who told him about the horrendous 'slave' issue? bloody bastard, from where you have learnt this? from your jews fathers?
 
LOOK MEMBERS of CHOTTALA, this man is a perfect example of MUSHRIK, much worse than a Kaafir.
 
 
  • the inhuman torture video of guantanamo bay, where naked Iraqis were made to be chased by hounds..and lately it has been declared by US govt that those held at guantanamo bay were actually innocent.
  • us attacked Iraq in 2003 even after getting confirmation that iraq didn't have any WMD. why bush was not declared a war criminal?
  • where were you when the world proved that 9/11 was a jew mastermind?
  • how much you know about the present worldwide drive against Muslims? how are you sure that the bomb attacks in iraq and pakistan are not carried out by non-muslims? because your fathers in the world media don't say so?

 

asghar, I invite you to join me for a duel. come to bangladesh. i will fight you hand-to-hand.

 

Did you, asghar, ever study Islam and life of our Prophet (PBUH)? i am sure you never had enough time. reading only a few stanzas of text produced by your western fathers is not enough to comment on a religion. a little learning is dangerous, and for you it has proved to be too dangerous, fatal!

 
it is about time that israel will rise as a super-power and control areas from Suez canal to Euphrates, less Iran. then the final episode of the doomsday will begin with the arrival of Imam Mahdi followed by Isaa (AHS).
 
Anyway, for Muslims, it is time that we remain united and denounce all kind of terrorism and bombing. surely, Islam never tells to kill innocent lives. if Muslims are involved in these crimes against humanity, they are not Muslims. we don't accept them as Muslims.
 
asghar, for how long you are staying in US? soon Allah's wrath will befall upon you and your family. you will find there will be no escape, because Allah will not punsih you by sending suicide bombers, He will send  subtle killers without weapon that will eat up your peace of mind and soul, and you will surely find no cure for that. you will run to doctors all around the globe, but nobody will be able to cure you and your family. before that, please please come down to Bangladesh and meet me in a duel. fair and square.
 
CHOTTALA group, we must loathe this kind of ppl. you also must not allow these ppl to pollute the environment. we must protest and eliminate these criminals of society. Islam says, "lakoom diinookoom waal ya-deen". your religion is yours and my religion is mine. so, asghar, please learn about your own religion first, if you have any religion at all. if you are an atheist, then think only about your own and don't extend your dirty nose into others'.
 
Dear CHOTTALA members, please excuse my language. i am sorry for that. if you wish, please oust me from your group.



Ahsan


--- On Fri, 3/27/09, Enayet Ullah <enayet_2000@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Enayet Ullah <enayet_2000@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [chottala.com] Pakistan may collapse in six months: Collapse of America soon?
To: khabor@yahoogroups. com
Cc: "chottala" <chottala@yahoogroup s.com>, odhora@yahoogroups. com, "alochona" <alochona@yahoogroup s.com>
Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 11:29 PM


Pakistan is not the only country exporting terrorism, India is also responsible for the same crime for the longest time.

Sri Lanka, the mayhem caused in Sri Lanka by Indian coveted operation & cohort Tamil Tigers are well funded by Indians. India defintely has a vested interested to see its neighbor collapse. Thats give India greater leverage and exert it political manuver. A weaken Pakistan definitely work for India's tactical benefit. LTTE being beaten by Sri Lankan Army, India defintely playing in the shore of Bangladesh. Using Bangladesh as its vast second hand market for 460 million dollar export, greatly benefit India.

India definitely eyeing for the next super power, stealing a page from Zionist playbook. India successfully subotaged Pakistan with mired terrorism. Dictator Ziaul Haq damaged Pakistan with Ronald Regan. Though this unholy alliance able to vanquish Socialism, Pakistan lost the gambit. Diaspora of Indians able to pave the way for India, cazoling with Israel & US.

Strategically Pakistan failed to gain Washington's favorite orphan, India filled the gap to counter rising Chinese influence.

The world is shifting, we are going through the most extra-ordinary period of the history. Unpredictable as it could be, within next few decades, we will witness the collapse of another super power. Maybe ending of one is the begining of others. Socialist Soviet Union took 70 years before it collapsed, America may take another 50 years before the power shift. It may not be emminent, but, the tectonic shift is in the process, to be continued...



--- On Fri, 3/27/09, msa40@aol.com <msa40@aol.com> wrote:

From: msa40@aol.com <msa40@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [khabor.com] Re: Pakistan may collapse in six months
To: khabor@yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 9:01 AM

Where Pakistan or the Pakistanis are getting the instructions on terrorism from? It is the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet of Islam. He killed people with his own hand, as they did not believe in him. Though the People of the Book, he not only killed the Jews, he also turned their women into his sex slaves.
 
The Quran testifies to the above facts. So, if the Muslims are following the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet, should we blame them? I do not call them a cancer, rather I believe they are the victims of Islam!
 
If we want to live in a peaceful world, then we must destroy the Quran and the Hadiths that induce Muslims to violence for the sake of Allah. Otherwise, we should expect no peace on earth.
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
In a message dated 3/27/2009 7:51:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, eastside_peds@ bellsouth. net writes:


Dear Mr. Chowdhury,
Thank you very much for your TRUE & THOROUGH elaboration about Pakistan. Pakistan is the MOTHER OF TERRORISM for the rest of the world!! Pakistan is a CANCER for this peaceful world! So, for HEALTHY WORLD this cancerous nation should be wipe out, should go back to STONE AGE.
 
Dr. Muhammad Ali Manik
------------ -- Original message from veirsmill@yahoo. com: ------------ --


 Mr. Salahuddin Ayubi,  I would be agreeing with you if this was not Pakistan but in case of Pakistan rest of the world especially our sub continent cannot sit at leisure in the sideline and let Taliban and other Islamic militants take control of nuclear warhead.

A huge population of Pakistan converted into radical Islam in last 30 years where criminals like Mullah Omar or Osama becomes hero of a lifetime. Where mosque and other Islamic institution been randomly used as training ground for exporting militant Islam in not just in South Asia but to the rest of the world.

Pakistan predictably supposes to be domed anyway because of its creation on the basis of falls presumption of two-nation theory based on religion. There is no God but Allah but the merciful has no reason to mercy on Pakistan . If they are not going to be go astray for any other reason they must for killing millions of people of Bangladesh , raping thousands of women, looting and burning village after village in then East Pakistan . If there is one who is the supreme then he must do the justice and ruin Pakistan as he ruined Nomrud and other nation.

People of Pakistan must do something if they want to save their nation from confirm ruination. They must do Taoba for all the wrongdoing they have done and start sensible comeback from making Pakistan further radical. Pakistan must beg for forgiveness going into its knees to Bangladesh , Poshtuns, Pathans and others whom they caused misery. They must do everything to destroy militancy by any means.

Pakistan has no right to exist as a nation if they continue to export terrorism around the world especially to our subcontinent. International community has rights and obligation to stop Pakistan being overtaken by Osama Bin Ladens radical un-Islamic Taliban militancy.

Regards

Shamim Chowdhury

Maryland, USA


 

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
--- In Amra-Bangladesi@ yahoogroups. com, Salahuddin Ayubi
<s_ayubi786@. ..> wrote:

Wishful bloody thinking. But how does that concern us? We are not
concerned with Pakistan anymore. Let them go to bloody hell.
                     Ayubi





____________ _________ _________ __
From: Syed Aslam Syed.Aslam3@ ...
To: Khobor khabor@yahoogroups. com; notun Bangladesh
notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com;
chottala@yahoogroup s.com; Amra Bangladesi
amra-bangladesi@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:29:08 PM
Subject: [Amra-Bangladesi] Pakistan may collapse in six months



____________ _________ _________ __
‘Pakistan may collapse in six months’
United News of Bangladesh . Dhaka
The Pakistani state could collapse within six months if immediate steps
are not taken to remedy the situation, warned a top adviser to the US
Central Command in an interview with Washington Post.
   David Kilcullen, who advises CENTCOM commander General David H
Petraeus on the war on terror, urged US policy makers to focus their
attention on Pakistan as a failure there could have devastating
consequences for the entire international community.
   In the interview published in Washington Post on Sunday,
Kilcullen, who is credited with the success of the US troop surge
strategy in Iraq, warned that if Pakistan went out of control, it would
‘dwarf’ all the crises in the world today.
‘Pakistan…hands down. No doubt,’ he said when asked
to name the central front in the war against terror.
   Asked to explain why he thought Pakistan was so important,
Kilcullen said: ‘Pakistan has 173 million people, 100 nuclear
weapons, an army bigger than the US Army, and al-Qaeda headquarters
sitting right there in the two-thirds of the country that the government
doesn’t control.’
   He claimed that the Pakistani military, police and intelligence
service did not follow the civilian government; they were essentially a
rogue state within a state. ‘Were now reaching the point where
within one to six months we could see the collapse of the Pakistani
state, also because of the global financial crisis, which just
exacerbates all these problems,’ he said.
   ‘The collapse of Pakistan, al-Qaeda acquiring nuclear
weapons, an extremist takeover â€" that would dwarf everything
we’ve seen in the war on terror today.’ Kilcullen, an
Australian anthropologist who advises governments on Muslim militancy
throughout the West, disagreed with the suggestion that it was important
to kill or capture Osama bin laden.
   He discussed two possible scenarios for catching the al-Qaeda
leader. Scenario one is, American commandos shoot their way into some
valley in Pakistan and kill bin Laden. This, Kilcullen said, would not
end the war on terror and would make bin Laden a martyr. The second
scenario: a tribal raiding party captures bin Laden, puts him on
television and says, ‘You are a traitor to Islam and you have
killed more Muslims than you have killed infidels, and we’re now
going to deal with you.’
   They could either then try and execute the guy in accordance
with their own laws or hand him over to the International Criminal
Court. ‘If that happened, that would be the end of the al-Qaeda
myth,’ said Kilcullen.
   He said that three lessons learned in Iraq could also apply to
Afghanistan. The first one is to protect the population. ‘Unless
people feel safe, they won’t be willing to engage in unarmed
politics,’ he argued.
   The second lesson is to focus on getting the population on
America’s side and making them self-defending. And then a third
lesson is to make a long-term commitment.
   Kilcullen said that the Obama administration’ s policy
of reaching out to moderate elements of the Taliban also had several
pitfalls. ‘If the Taliban sees that we’re negotiating for
a stay of execution or to stave off defeat, that’s going to
harden their resolve,’ he warns. ‘I’m all for
negotiating, but I think the chances of achieving a mass wave of people
turning against the Taliban are somewhat lower in Afghanistan than they
were in Iraq.’
____________ _________ _________ __

http://www.newagebd .com/2009/ mar/24/front. html

Pakistan may collapse in six months: US General
The New Nation - Internet EditionPakistan may collapse in six months: US
General. UNB, Dhaka The Pakistani state could collapse within six months
if immediate steps are not taken to remedy ...
nation.ittefaq. com/issues/ 2009/03/24/ news0885. htm - 9 hours ago -
Similar pages -
Pakistan may collapse in six months, predicts Washington Post
The Pakistani state could collapse within six months if immediate steps
are not taken to remedy the situation,
www.thefinancialexp ress-bd.com/ 2009/03/24/ 62108.html - 9 hours ago -
Similar pages -
Pakistan could collapse in six months: Kilcullen
Mar 24, 2009 ... WASHINGTON: The Pakistani state could collapse within
six months if .... anyone else from his cabinet to Raiwind may raise
some eyebrows but ...
www.thenews. com.pk/top_ story_detail. asp?Id=21109 - 23 minutes ago -
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Front Page - 3 visits - 11/9/07
‘Pakistan may collapse in six months’ United News of
Bangladesh . Dhaka. The Pakistani state could collapse within six months
if immediate steps are not ...
www.newagebd. com/front. html - 70k - Cached - Similar pages -
CENTCOM Advisor gives Pakistan six months before it collapses
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may thank New Delhi for calm border during troopers’ mutiny ...
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gives-pakistan- six-months- before-it- collapses_ 100170005. html - Similar
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advisor-gives- pakistan- six-months- before-it- collapses/ - 10 hours ago -
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-What the CIA chief's visit to India, Pak means
Rediff - ‎16 hours ago‎
After having visited India from March 18 to 20, he proceeded to Pakistan
for discussions with Pakistani Army and intelligence officers and
political leaders ...
A Conversation With David Kilcullen
Washington Post - ‎Mar 21, 2009‎
David Kilcullen, an Australian army reservist and top adviser to Gen.
David H. Petraeus during the troop surge in Iraq, has spent years
studying ... 

--- End forwarded message ---





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[* Moderator�s Note - CHOTTALA is a non-profit, non-religious, non-political and non-discriminatory organization.

* Disclaimer: Any posting to the CHOTTALA are the opinion of the author. Authors of the messages to the CHOTTALA are responsible for the accuracy of their information and the conformance of their material with applicable copyright and other laws. Many people will read your post, and it will be archived for a very long time. The act of posting to the CHOTTALA indicates the subscriber's agreement to accept the adjudications of the moderator]




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Re: [chottala.com] 452 get TAC mercy

For Justice of law & lawful Administration the most duty of the present BAL Government is to give order to those people for refunding their illegal money to the Government public fund & to ask them for begging pardon to the people of Bangladesh for their Illegal works & to do promise in future they will not do any work for earning illegally of public money.

--- On Tue, 31/3/09, Miro Jangi <mjangi@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Miro Jangi <mjangi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [chottala.com] 452 get TAC mercy
To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, 31 March, 2009, 7:32 AM

The now defunct Truth and Accountability Commission (TAC) granted mercy to a total of 452 people including former state minister Major (retd) Qamrul Islam, BNP leader Mosaraf Hosain Thakur, Dr Md Afzal Hossain Raj son of former adviser of caretaker government Justice Fazlul Huq, deputy secretaries Fasihuddin and Sankar Kumar Das and joint secretary Surut Zaman, teacher of mathematics department of the Chittagong University Md Fazleh Hossain, all of whom made voluntary confession about their ill-gotten wealth, in the five-month duration of the commission from July 30 last year.

In total 491 people had sought mercy from TAC but 39 applicants did not turn up..
Those who got mercy had to pay a price for it. TAC realised Tk 34 crore as fine.

Of the 452 people, 25 are businessmen, 351 government servants, 2 politicians and 20 from other professions. Besides TAC granted mercy to 54 women who are wives of government servants.

The list of those who applied for and got mercy makes an interesting reading. A staggering 94 belong to Titas gas company, 33 roads and highways, 33 DESA, 20 forest department, 14 BGCL, 8 BRTA, 5 BIWTA and 5 to BTCL. As many as 20 sub-registrars are also included in the list.

Those who got mercy from the TAC are: former chief executive officer of Sylhet City Corporation Saiful Islam and his wife Rozina Sultana Rimi, former additional chief engineer of roads and highway department (RHD) Md Fakhrul Alam Talukder and hif wife Shamsunnahar Chowdhury, former executive engineer of BIWTA Md Saiful Islam and his

wife Sharmina Islam, former deputy assistant engineer (DAE) of BIWTA Abu Bakar Siddique and his wife Fazila Khatun, DAE of BIWTA Md Jahirul Islam and his wife Afroza Khanom, assistant engineer of BIWTA AH Md Farhaduzzaman, Ferdouse Jahan sub-registrar Abdul Malek Kazi, former divisional forest officer Dewan Jafrul Hasan, deputy manager Md Zillur Rahman, former project director (mechanical ) of Chittagong

Port Md Khairul Mostafa, former chief engineer of RHD AKM Faisur Rahman, former sub-registrar Md Jahurul Islam Khan, deputy director Md Idris Ali, Sheikh Ali Ahmed, chief accountant of BTCL Syed Shakhawat Hossain Chowdhury, Md Maniruzzamam Chowdhury, former district registrar Md Abdul Hamid Hawlader and his wife, former

principal of Meherpur Government Collage Md Mujibur Rahman, , former sub-registrars Md Mujibur Rahman, Md Abdur Jabbar Khan, Md Rezaul Karim and Md Mohammad Ali, Rezai Rabbi Matubabud Darain and his wife, former sub-registrar Md Abdul Awal, Clark of BRTA Md Nurul Islam, former chief engineer of RHD Khandaker Azadur Rahman, former MD of Essential Drug Harun Al Rashid, former executive engineer of RHD

Manjur Ahmed Bhuiyan, former assistant engineer Md Abdul Haque Miagi and his wife, Md Masuk Uddin Ahmed and his wife, Farida Yasmin, former executive engineer of RHD Md Nazmul Haque, Delwar Begum and her sons Suman Saharier and Emon Shaharier, former chief engineer of RHD Mahtab Uddin AHmed, Md Akhtar Hossain Khan, Hosneara Haque, former sub-registrar Md Sahadat Hossain Bhuiyan, former additional DG

Md Kamruzzaman, former UP chairman of Alhaz Md Selim, former executive engineer of RHD Khandaker Golam Mostafa, former superintendent engineer of RHD Md Abdul Moktadir, Sammaituha Morium, former sub-registrar of Narayanganj Fatema Begum, DAE of RHD Md Nurul Haque, Selina Haque wife of Md Nurul Haque, former additional director of Bridge Authority Md Mansur Rahman and his wife, Dr Md

Afzal Hossain Raj son of former adviser of caretaker government Justice Fazlul Huq, former executive engineer of RHD Md Jorgis Hossaion, Md Sujaul Hasan son of late Shofi Uddin Ahmed, former police inspector Md Abdur Rob, former assistant police super of Rajshahi Khandaker Abdur Razzak, assistant director of BRTA Md Helal Uddin Talukder, former forest conservator Md Ali Kabir Haider and his wife, GS Raihana Rahmat wife of Md Adom Ali Gazi, former deputy manager of Bangladesh Silk Foundation Md Shafiqul Alam, former forest

ranger of Faridpur Kazi Mahinur Rahman, traffic sergeant Md Abed Ali, former director of BRTA Md Shahid Hossain Khan, former principal of SM Zahirul Haque Rabbani, former forest conservator M Atiqul Azam, Keramat Ali owner of M/S Binimoy Traders, Khodejatul Kibria wife of Delwar Hossain, former additional law secretary Md Abul Basar Bhuiyan, teacher of mathematics department of the Chittagong

University Md Fazleh Hossain, Begum Rowshonara Chowdhury wife of Anisur Rahman Chowdhury and MD of Tharmex Group Abdur Kadir Mollah.
On July 30 last year, the caretaker government appointed Justice Habibur Rahman Khan, a retired justice of High Court as chairman and Maj Gen (retd)Manzur Rashid Khan and former Comptroller of Auditor General (CAG) Asif Ali as members of the Truth and Accountability
Commission, popularly known as Truth Commission.



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[* Moderator�s Note - CHOTTALA is a non-profit, non-religious, non-political and non-discriminatory organization.

* Disclaimer: Any posting to the CHOTTALA are the opinion of the author. Authors of the messages to the CHOTTALA are responsible for the accuracy of their information and the conformance of their material with applicable copyright and other laws. Many people will read your post, and it will be archived for a very long time. The act of posting to the CHOTTALA indicates the subscriber's agreement to accept the adjudications of the moderator]




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Re: [chottala.com] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare

Can you say CID Police officer Mr Abdur Kahar Akond who is investigating The BDR Massacare is an honest person? Is he not one of the most corrupted officers? It can be find out if an judicial inquiry board is formed for investigating his money & property.
How much money & property how has Mr Abdur Kahar Akond earned?

--- On Mon, 30/3/09, ahsan@yahoo.com <ahsan@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: ahsan@yahoo.com <ahsan@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [chottala.com] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare
To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
Received: Monday, 30 March, 2009, 10:54 AM

Dear Chottala Group,
 
It is true that a few army officers are corrupt, which holds good for every organization in the entire world..from west to east, north to south. corruption can't be 'zero', thats what is said in modern theory of management. but should it be the yardstick for drawing conclusion about the entire army officers' community?
 
If you want to consider 'exceptions' as 'examples', you may not read this mail any further  wasting your invaluable time.
 
  • A few teachers of DU were found to have been involved in harassing female students for a better grade...do you now call the entire teacher community of DU characterless?
  • saifuddin manik, a BCL cadre of jahangirnagar university, and his accomplices celebrated his 100th rape in JU in the late nineties by cutting cake. later he was sent abroad by his political well wishers...now do you call the entire BCL and its parent organization as rapist?
  • a few Muslims are reportedly killing innocent people by carrying out suicide bombings...do you now call the entire Muslim community as kiilers?
 
You all seem to be quite educated. is it really wise and logical for you to term army officers as corrupt? don't you have army officers as your relatives? or are you in an island outside societal Bangladesh and viewing the country with binoculars from there?
 
Do you know that army officers are dismissed from service without pension for corruption even if the entire embezzled property of govt is recovered and govt incurs no financial loss? do you know how an army officer leads his family life, how he/she strives hard to lead an honest and decent life with whatever he/she earns? do you know how an army officers tries hard to make every paisa of the govt worth spending being the custodian of govt money and property?
 
out of thousands of examples, please consider only a few:
 
  • An army officer is under severe rage of all employees of mongla port because, out of several reasons: (1) he managed a contract estimated at Tk 17 million by only 2 million, (2) he brought down the yearly maintenance cost of goods handling equipment from tk 3.5 million to less than tk 3 lac, (3) he managed an estimated cost of tk 1.5 million by only tk 20 thou.
  • R Lockett <rlockett@ipsmktg. com> wrote:   

    I spoke to one of the major feeder ship operators in Singapore that services Chittagong port.

    I started to ask him about the port situation in Chittagong and could hardly finish my sentence when he interrupted with the comment “Well, this is a very interesting story�. I pass on to you some of his comments (words to the effect and not verbatim of course).

     â€œThey sent a colonel down to Chittagong to sort out the port. He did more in about 30 days than has been achieved at Chittagong in 30 yearsâ€�

     â€œThis guy has done more for Bangladesh shipping operations than I would have believed possibleâ€�

     â€œThe port is running to a disciplined process. We berth our ships on arrival and stay for a maximum of 48 hours before we have to leave the berth â€" whether cargo operations are complete or not â€" that rule is strictly enforced. This means we can schedule a fixed day of the week service into and out of Chittagong and that then means we can more or less guarantee the feeder connections to the main line ships at the relay ports like Colombo and Singapore . An incredible improvement in the service reliability levels for the shipping lines versus previously when we usually waited 10-12 days for a berth at Chittagong and could not schedule our vessels to meet the connections downstream“

     â€˜ Chittagong port container volumes are growing at about 12% per annumâ€�

     My contact then asked why I was asking about Chittagong .

     I told him we were aware of the intention to implement container scanning for both import and export containers.

     His comment was that “he hoped that whatever they do it does not affect the new found productivity at the portâ€� that has been achieved at Chittagong .

    I told him that there are solutions that have a negligible impact on productivity. (We have one of course but I did not elaborate)

    I suggested that I meet him for lunch in a few weeks time when he is back in Singapore and brief him on the SAIC solution that maintain productivity â€" the feeder operators obviously want to see the new  port situation protected and they could be a good ally for us.

     

    Robert

     ============ ========= ========= =====
    Robert Lockett
    Vice President Business Development
    IPS Marketing Resources (S) Pte Ltd
    71 Tech Park Crescent
    Tuas Tech Park
    Singapore 638072
    Tel: (65) 6863 1111
    Fax: (65) 6863 3811
    Mobile : (65)9757 1787

    Why the general mass in the villages want army to make list and distribution of items of Vulnerable Group Feeding (VGF) program? don't our govt has its machines to do that? why the people beg the army to carry out the relief and rehabilitation after a natural disaster forgetting the representatives of the govt they elected?

      Anyway, the list is not exhaustive. My point is simple: just a request to you all educated persons to be sane enough to comment.

       

      You may ask me, "what is the authenticity of the examples and prose that have eaten up our precious time reading this mail?" I may only say that I am not a lier and I am not wasting my time to compose bluffs for you. I have just tried to type down the truth, and I have done it out of my conviction as a servant of Allah.

       

      Regards


      Ahsan


      --- On Sun, 3/29/09, dina khan <dina30_khan@ yahoo.com> wrote:

      From: dina khan <dina30_khan@ yahoo.com>
      Subject: Re: [chottala.com] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare
      To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
      Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 3:00 PM

      Ill got ill spent.
      Every action has equal & opposite Reaction.
      Man proposes God disposes.

      --- On Sun, 29/3/09, Mohammad@yahoo. com <Mohammad@yahoo. com> wrote:
      From: Mohammad@yahoo. com <Mohammad@yahoo. com>
      Subject: Re: [chottala.com] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare
      To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
      Received: Sunday, 29 March, 2009, 10:25 PM

      Dear Everyone
       
         It is really very important to investigate all these Amry officers involved such corruption. I personally know a six story building at Uttara built by an army major without developer. Beyond imigination. An Army major income is surely not enough to build a six story building without any developers help. Imagine how much he got fromother source.
       
      This is our country - Bangladesh. we must be proud of our beloved countrywith millions of poor people to live from hand to mouth.
       
      Regds.

      Eng. Mohammad Abdus Sobhan
      Former Chairman ASME Saudi Arabia
      (C&W P Chapter)
      and
      Business Development Manager
      TS&OS (Technical Support and Operational Service Co. Ltd.)
      214 -25, Bergamot Ave
      Etobicoke, ON M9W 1W4
      Canada.
      Tel- 416 238 7930

      E-mail: sobhanma_asme@ yahoo.com

      --- On Wed, 3/11/09, Mr. Abul@yahoo.com <Mr. Abul@yahoo.com> wrote:

      From: Mr. Abul@yahoo.com <Mr. Abul@yahoo.com>
      Subject: [chottala.com] Some Thoughts About The BDR Massacare
      To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com, baainews@yahoogroup s.com, bangla_ict@yahoogro ups.com, bangladeshi_ friends@yahoogro ups.com, bdresearchers@ yahoogroups. com, Bristi_Namai@ yahoogroups. com, chottala@yahoogroup s.com, dahuk@yahoogroups. com, Diagnose@yahoogroup s.com, Fariaz@yahoogroups. com, FutureOfBangladesh@ yahoogroups. com, khabor@yahoogroups. com, mukto-mona@yahoogro ups.com, notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com, odhora@yahoogroups. com, reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com, Shetubondhon@ yahoogroups. com, sonarbangladesh@ yahoogroups. com, uttorshuri@yahoogro ups.com
      Cc: abuilla@yahoo. com
      Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 10:00 PM

      First of all, I pray for the departed souls who lost their lives during this BDR event.
       
      At the same time, I can't but mention the following points:
       
      1.  Who is going to talk about the corruption of Army during care taker Government?  I know from my personal contacts that many Army officers did sky high corruption during that time.  Please keep in mind that Army is such a force who does huge corruption, BUT nobody can catch them at any time.  On the other hand they are gifted with MP nomination and eventually become minister as soon as they retire.  This is the first time in BD that some Army officers had to give lives (except the Army killing by Ziaur Rahman in late '70s).
       
      2.  Anybody who has little bit of sense will understand that the BDR event was planned by experts who has clear knowledge about war planning.  And in BD only two forces can do that -- one is Jamaat and the other is Army.  
       
      3.  Was the helicopter crash just an accident?  A Major General died and why is Army so quite?  The helicopter was bought only three years back, isn't it unlikely to have an accident now??
       
      4.  The person who was allegedly driving the APC (so called bullet proof car) in Pilkhana committed suicide within custody?  Is this just another accident?
       
      5.  Now come to the audio --  Army is trained for crisis management and war time situation.  But the way the officers were talking to Sk Hasina, that was extremely emotional, immature and childlike.  I can expect this from people like us, but NOT from Army officers.  Why they were finger pointing and doing emotional blackmailing?  Is this just sympathy or something else???
       
      6.  Why the officers put their hands on DAD Tauhid's mouth when he was trying to say something to the media ???
       
      So, we can never rull out Army's involvement in the whole event.  As we have seen before, the main criminals will never be identified and some poor BDR folks (may be some DADs, jawans will be hanged).
       
      Sorry if I hurt anybody by any chance ............ ..
       
      Regards.
       
      -Mr. Abul



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      Re: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!

      According to the Quranic Verses any man or woman can do what he/she  wants to do & can say what he/she likes to say. By doing or by saying any thing does not mean that the real  Religion faith will finish. The unversal faith  of Islam is that believing in One  Almighty God who is the Supreme power & creator of whole Universe  & Who is the Final Judge  of the Last Day Judegement of the human being..  It is also advised  to Mohammad (PBU) to say the people for following  the advice  " Lakum-Dini-Kum Walia-Din". 


      --- On Mon, 30/3/09, Lost Dream <lostadream@hotmail.com> wrote:
      From: Lost Dream <lostadream@hotmail.com>
      Subject: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!
      To: chottala@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Monday, 30 March, 2009, 9:29 AM


      Dear Mr. Ahsan,

      Lest you for forgot that everyone has a right to put forward his/her thoughts as long as they do not become abusive in their langauge. You need to control your temper, preferably seek "Temper Management". Using foul language does not improve your opinion instead it gives a feeling about the depth of your knowledge, which is extremely poor.

      Mr. Ashgar writes a lot of things about Islam, its tradition, its culture and followers, most of his writings are backed up by quatation of the Holy Quran, maybe his interpretation is different from most Islamic followers but never have I found abusive langauge. If you wish to contradict his posting, please do so intelligently, not by assumptions.

      Now regarding your curse against him, are you trying to tell the world that people who suffer from incurable diseases, such as cancer or ESRD are all sinners against the Quran, are you stupid or joking. Many great men and women have died because of this diseases, my father and three of my sisters, and they were some of the best persons I know, none of them had anything to do with writings or deeds against any religion whatsoever. Therefore Mr. Ahsan, please write with intelligence not emotions.

      If the Moderator supports the fanatics and does not allow openess I guess he/she should open up a Madrasa, instead of a International open forum.

      Kind regards.






      To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
      From: ahsan3332@yahoo. com
      Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:50:02 -0700
      Subject: Re: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!

      Dear Moderator
       
      Thanks for your reply.
       
      Regards

      Ahsan


      --- On Sat, 3/28/09, Hafiz Ahsan <ahsan3332@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: Hafiz Ahsan <ahsan3332@yahoo. com>
      Subject: [chottala.com] For Chottola Members & Asghar--- Horrible!!
      To: chottala@yahoogroup s.com
      Date: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 10:18 AM

      .
       
      Moderator Note: Mr. Mohammad Ashgar or msa40@aol.com is not a member of Chottala group. I double checked it. His message was not approved from our Chottala group but by the Khabor group (Please check the chain). We approved Mr. Enayet Ullah's message which he sent to us as response to Mr. Asghar's orginal post. We do not condone nor allow any emails that insults any religion. Howver, we can't control other groups. Thanks. ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
       
      Excuse me chottala group..but I find this group has been polluted by some ppl. for example, who is this Mohammad Asghar msa40@aol.com? his mails have entered into this group (check below).
       
      He is passing odd remarks about our Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). he is just a desk top mule. His knowledge is not only shallow, but extremely negative. how can he claim to have a Muslim name? he must be a member of the "Khazars", the neo-jews or converted jews. what he knows about Islam and our Prophet (PBUH)? who told him about the horrendous 'slave' issue? bloody bastard, from where you have learnt this? from your jews fathers?
       
      LOOK MEMBERS of CHOTTALA, this man is a perfect example of MUSHRIK, much worse than a Kaafir.
       
       
      • the inhuman torture video of guantanamo bay, where naked Iraqis were made to be chased by hounds..and lately it has been declared by US govt that those held at guantanamo bay were actually innocent.
      • us attacked Iraq in 2003 even after getting confirmation that iraq didn't have any WMD. why bush was not declared a war criminal?
      • where were you when the world proved that 9/11 was a jew mastermind?
      • how much you know about the present worldwide drive against Muslims? how are you sure that the bomb attacks in iraq and pakistan are not carried out by non-muslims? because your fathers in the world media don't say so?

       

      asghar, I invite you to join me for a duel. come to bangladesh. i will fight you hand-to-hand.

       

      Did you, asghar, ever study Islam and life of our Prophet (PBUH)? i am sure you never had enough time. reading only a few stanzas of text produced by your western fathers is not enough to comment on a religion. a little learning is dangerous, and for you it has proved to be too dangerous, fatal!

       
      it is about time that israel will rise as a super-power and control areas from Suez canal to Euphrates, less Iran. then the final episode of the doomsday will begin with the arrival of Imam Mahdi followed by Isaa (AHS).
       
      Anyway, for Muslims, it is time that we remain united and denounce all kind of terrorism and bombing. surely, Islam never tells to kill innocent lives. if Muslims are involved in these crimes against humanity, they are not Muslims. we don't accept them as Muslims.
       
      asghar, for how long you are staying in US? soon Allah's wrath will befall upon you and your family. you will find there will be no escape, because Allah will not punsih you by sending suicide bombers, He will send  subtle killers without weapon that will eat up your peace of mind and soul, and you will surely find no cure for that. you will run to doctors all around the globe, but nobody will be able to cure you and your family. before that, please please come down to Bangladesh and meet me in a duel. fair and square.
       
      CHOTTALA group, we must loathe this kind of ppl. you also must not allow these ppl to pollute the environment. we must protest and eliminate these criminals of society. Islam says, "lakoom diinookoom waal ya-deen". your religion is yours and my religion is mine. so, asghar, please learn about your own religion first, if you have any religion at all. if you are an atheist, then think only about your own and don't extend your dirty nose into others'.
       
      Dear CHOTTALA members, please excuse my language. i am sorry for that. if you wish, please oust me from your group.



      Ahsan


      --- On Fri, 3/27/09, Enayet Ullah <enayet_2000@ yahoo.com> wrote:

      From: Enayet Ullah <enayet_2000@ yahoo.com>
      Subject: [chottala.com] Pakistan may collapse in six months: Collapse of America soon?
      To: khabor@yahoogroups. com
      Cc: "chottala" <chottala@yahoogroup s.com>, odhora@yahoogroups. com, "alochona" <alochona@yahoogroup s.com>
      Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 11:29 PM


      Pakistan is not the only country exporting terrorism, India is also responsible for the same crime for the longest time.

      Sri Lanka, the mayhem caused in Sri Lanka by Indian coveted operation & cohort Tamil Tigers are well funded by Indians. India defintely has a vested interested to see its neighbor collapse. Thats give India greater leverage and exert it political manuver. A weaken Pakistan definitely work for India's tactical benefit. LTTE being beaten by Sri Lankan Army, India defintely playing in the shore of Bangladesh. Using Bangladesh as its vast second hand market for 460 million dollar export, greatly benefit India.

      India definitely eyeing for the next super power, stealing a page from Zionist playbook. India successfully subotaged Pakistan with mired terrorism. Dictator Ziaul Haq damaged Pakistan with Ronald Regan. Though this unholy alliance able to vanquish Socialism, Pakistan lost the gambit. Diaspora of Indians able to pave the way for India, cazoling with Israel & US.

      Strategically Pakistan failed to gain Washington's favorite orphan, India filled the gap to counter rising Chinese influence.

      The world is shifting, we are going through the most extra-ordinary period of the history. Unpredictable as it could be, within next few decades, we will witness the collapse of another super power. Maybe ending of one is the begining of others. Socialist Soviet Union took 70 years before it collapsed, America may take another 50 years before the power shift. It may not be emminent, but, the tectonic shift is in the process, to be continued...



      --- On Fri, 3/27/09, msa40@aol.com <msa40@aol.com> wrote:

      From: msa40@aol.com <msa40@aol.com>
      Subject: Re: [khabor.com] Re: Pakistan may collapse in six months
      To: khabor@yahoogroups. com
      Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 9:01 AM

      Where Pakistan or the Pakistanis are getting the instructions on terrorism from? It is the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet of Islam. He killed people with his own hand, as they did not believe in him. Though the People of the Book, he not only killed the Jews, he also turned their women into his sex slaves.
       
      The Quran testifies to the above facts. So, if the Muslims are following the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet, should we blame them? I do not call them a cancer, rather I believe they are the victims of Islam!
       
      If we want to live in a peaceful world, then we must destroy the Quran and the Hadiths that induce Muslims to violence for the sake of Allah. Otherwise, we should expect no peace on earth.
       
      Mohammad Asghar
       
      In a message dated 3/27/2009 7:51:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, eastside_peds@ bellsouth. net writes:


      Dear Mr. Chowdhury,
      Thank you very much for your TRUE & THOROUGH elaboration about Pakistan. Pakistan is the MOTHER OF TERRORISM for the rest of the world!! Pakistan is a CANCER for this peaceful world! So, for HEALTHY WORLD this cancerous nation should be wipe out, should go back to STONE AGE.
       
      Dr. Muhammad Ali Manik
      ------------ -- Original message from veirsmill@yahoo. com: ------------ --


       Mr. Salahuddin Ayubi,  I would be agreeing with you if this was not Pakistan but in case of Pakistan rest of the world especially our sub continent cannot sit at leisure in the sideline and let Taliban and other Islamic militants take control of nuclear warhead.

      A huge population of Pakistan converted into radical Islam in last 30 years where criminals like Mullah Omar or Osama becomes hero of a lifetime. Where mosque and other Islamic institution been randomly used as training ground for exporting militant Islam in not just in South Asia but to the rest of the world.

      Pakistan predictably supposes to be domed anyway because of its creation on the basis of falls presumption of two-nation theory based on religion. There is no God but Allah but the merciful has no reason to mercy on Pakistan . If they are not going to be go astray for any other reason they must for killing millions of people of Bangladesh , raping thousands of women, looting and burning village after village in then East Pakistan . If there is one who is the supreme then he must do the justice and ruin Pakistan as he ruined Nomrud and other nation.

      People of Pakistan must do something if they want to save their nation from confirm ruination. They must do Taoba for all the wrongdoing they have done and start sensible comeback from making Pakistan further radical. Pakistan must beg for forgiveness going into its knees to Bangladesh , Poshtuns, Pathans and others whom they caused misery. They must do everything to destroy militancy by any means.

      Pakistan has no right to exist as a nation if they continue to export terrorism around the world especially to our subcontinent. International community has rights and obligation to stop Pakistan being overtaken by Osama Bin Ladens radical un-Islamic Taliban militancy.

      Regards

      Shamim Chowdhury

      Maryland, USA


       

      ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
      --- In Amra-Bangladesi@ yahoogroups. com, Salahuddin Ayubi
      <s_ayubi786@. ..> wrote:

      Wishful bloody thinking. But how does that concern us? We are not
      concerned with Pakistan anymore. Let them go to bloody hell.
       Â Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚  Ayubi





      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: Syed Aslam Syed.Aslam3@ ...
      To: Khobor khabor@yahoogroups. com; notun Bangladesh
      notun_bangladesh@ yahoogroups. com; reform-bd@yahoogrou ps.com;
      chottala@yahoogroup s.com; Amra Bangladesi
      amra-bangladesi@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:29:08 PM
      Subject: [Amra-Bangladesi] Pakistan may collapse in six months



      ____________ _________ _________ __
      ‘Pakistan may collapse in six months’
      United News of Bangladesh . Dhaka
      The Pakistani state could collapse within six months if immediate steps
      are not taken to remedy the situation, warned a top adviser to the US
      Central Command in an interview with Washington Post.
       Â Ã‚ David Kilcullen, who advises CENTCOM commander General David H
      Petraeus on the war on terror, urged US policy makers to focus their
      attention on Pakistan as a failure there could have devastating
      consequences for the entire international community.
       Â Ã‚ In the interview published in Washington Post on Sunday,
      Kilcullen, who is credited with the success of the US troop surge
      strategy in Iraq, warned that if Pakistan went out of control, it would
      ‘dwarf’ all the crises in the world today.
      ‘Pakistan…hands down. No doubt,’ he said when asked
      to name the central front in the war against terror.
       Â Ã‚ Asked to explain why he thought Pakistan was so important,
      Kilcullen said: ‘Pakistan has 173 million people, 100 nuclear
      weapons, an army bigger than the US Army, and al-Qaeda headquarters
      sitting right there in the two-thirds of the country that the government
      doesn’t control.’
       Â Ã‚ He claimed that the Pakistani military, police and intelligence
      service did not follow the civilian government; they were essentially a
      rogue state within a state. ‘Were now reaching the point where
      within one to six months we could see the collapse of the Pakistani
      state, also because of the global financial crisis, which just
      exacerbates all these problems,’ he said.
       Â Ã‚ Ã¢â‚¬ËœThe collapse of Pakistan, al-Qaeda acquiring nuclear
      weapons, an extremist takeover â€" that would dwarf everything
      we’ve seen in the war on terror today.’ Kilcullen, an
      Australian anthropologist who advises governments on Muslim militancy
      throughout the West, disagreed with the suggestion that it was important
      to kill or capture Osama bin laden.
       Â Ã‚ He discussed two possible scenarios for catching the al-Qaeda
      leader. Scenario one is, American commandos shoot their way into some
      valley in Pakistan and kill bin Laden. This, Kilcullen said, would not
      end the war on terror and would make bin Laden a martyr. The second
      scenario: a tribal raiding party captures bin Laden, puts him on
      television and says, ‘You are a traitor to Islam and you have
      killed more Muslims than you have killed infidels, and we’re now
      going to deal with you.’
       Â Ã‚ They could either then try and execute the guy in accordance
      with their own laws or hand him over to the International Criminal
      Court. ‘If that happened, that would be the end of the al-Qaeda
      myth,’ said Kilcullen.
       Â Ã‚ He said that three lessons learned in Iraq could also apply to
      Afghanistan. The first one is to protect the population. ‘Unless
      people feel safe, they won’t be willing to engage in unarmed
      politics,’ he argued.
       Â Ã‚ The second lesson is to focus on getting the population on
      America’s side and making them self-defending. And then a third
      lesson is to make a long-term commitment.
       Â Ã‚ Kilcullen said that the Obama administration’ s policy
      of reaching out to moderate elements of the Taliban also had several
      pitfalls. ‘If the Taliban sees that we’re negotiating for
      a stay of execution or to stave off defeat, that’s going to
      harden their resolve,’ he warns. ‘I’m all for
      negotiating, but I think the chances of achieving a mass wave of people
      turning against the Taliban are somewhat lower in Afghanistan than they
      were in Iraq.’
      ____________ _________ _________ __

      http://www.newagebd .com/2009/ mar/24/front. html

      Pakistan may collapse in six months: US General
      The New Nation - Internet EditionPakistan may collapse in six months: US
      General. UNB, Dhaka The Pakistani state could collapse within six months
      if immediate steps are not taken to remedy ...
      nation.ittefaq. com/issues/ 2009/03/24/ news0885. htm - 9 hours ago -
      Similar pages -
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      are not taken to remedy the situation,
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      gives-pakistan- six-months- before-it- collapses_ 100170005. html - Similar
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      A Conversation With David Kilcullen
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      David Kilcullen, an Australian army reservist and top adviser to Gen.
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      studying ... 

      --- End forwarded message ---





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